10 x 10 german workout, anyone heard of it? was think of starting it for a few weeks to give my body a change of routine! anyone here did it?

btw its recommended by anthony ellis and iron addict

Try it once and see if you get sore from it.

well actually started it last night, and I would say I am fairly sore today, but nothing too bad. what does that matter?

Getting sore means you pushed your muscles into unfamiliar territory, ie. means you will grow. Whether you're doing something you're not used to or you trained past your threshold, getting sore should be the goal. If you're not pushing your limits, then you're not moving forward. It has ALWAYS worked for me.

Soreness means nothing. You can get sore or not get sore from most any exercise.

I deadlifted yesterday. My legs aren't sore. My lower back isn't sore. My upper back is though. What's that say? Nothing.

Right, pal. Let me know how much you grow.

Just the very first google search result among hundreds, buddy:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/henkin6yy.htm

Volume training is retarded...



http://www.bodybuildingfanatic.com/coloradoexperiment.htm

mrRuckus said:

Just the very first google search result among hundreds, buddy:

Click to expand...

Look I'm not trying to say soreness is the ONLY indicator of a good training session, but it's a good rule of thumb. When your body is pushed into uncharted waters, you WILL get sore. And doing that is the only way to force your body to adapt.

Not getting sore means your body has adapted. It either needs to be pushed more or something needs to change.

No offense to the author, but Arnold is quite a bit more knowledgeable in the basics. He basically echoes Joe Weider's principles.

Hmm, I'm with Ruckus on this.

The only measurement you should be using to make certain that you are growing is......are you ready for this?.......overload progression.

Soreness has too many variables and thus is a poor indicator of progress. The key should be to make sure that you are adding weights, changing sets/reps, while maintaining the correct form. At no point, should form be compromised just to add 10 more pounds or to get last couple of sets. So long as you're doing this, you will be actively growing.

And don't forget nutrition. But that's a given.

Afterall soreness could mean you did something wrong, pulled something, etc. Hard to tell.

Ive heard many people like soreness because it makes them feel like they have worked their body so maybe that's the reason for them liking it so much.

And well Arnold is Arnold, I have huge amount of respect for the Arnold but he also is a genetic freak who's been huge almost all his life.

It has worked very well for me, and been a good indicator of when to change programs.

There's a difference in soreness and pain. Pain is your body telling you something's not right. Soreness isn't painful. Uncomfortable maybe, but not painful.

Like I said, soreness isn't the ONLY factor. But it is ONE factor, to me, anyway.

haha soreness and pain is the same to me :crazy:

German Volume training can produce some serious growth, but its easy to over train on it. IA has people do it for 4-5weeks and eat a lot of food. How did you set yours up?

hey effort, I am just going to do it for 3-4 weeks to get some quick growth and then will go back on to heavy weights to shock the system.

this is how im doing it: Monday chest and back

Wednesday legs

Friday shoulders and arms

I am doing one movement for each bodypart, which is the following:

chest: flat bench

back: barbell row

legs: squat

shoulders: military press

biceps: dumbell curls

Triceps: cable pulldowns

As for the soreness topic I have felt sore in my chest the day after monday's workout. Just need to make sure I get my 6 meals in a day, though I am going to have to eat cleaner than before as I want gains to be lean this time! (my last cycle I made massive gains but also made fat gains!) P.s. i can't afford it at the minute but I am going to get some creatine an glutamine next week hopefully.

What you think of the routine for the next few weeks?

Do the Ray Park workout on tnation.

speed dawg said:

Look I'm not trying to say soreness is the ONLY indicator of a good training session, but it's a good rule of thumb. When your body is pushed into uncharted waters, you WILL get sore. And doing that is the only way to force your body to adapt.

Click to expand...

There's an article from iron addict out there that if i remember correctly is that his delts NEVER get sore no matter what he does to them. He did something like 6 sets of 30 or something to them purposely just to see if there was anything he could do to get them sore. Come to thikn of it, the front of my shoulders don't get sore either, and if i recall correctly i read something before that the front delts are one of the most resistant to soreness for some reason.

Some parts on certain people do not get sore.

I could type all day long and my fingers and forearms would be sore but they would not be growing bigger. I could do 50 reps of 5 lbs bicep curls and not grow bigger but be sore. I can run around at a softball tournament (this weekend, by the way) and i know i will be sore but my legs aren't growing from it.

It does *NOT* take that much stimulation to trigger a growth response from muscles. You just need to go beyond what they're comfortable doing at their current adaptation. You can still get a growth stimulus without soreness. Doing two extra reps than last workout isn't necessarily going to get you sore but it's still going to trigger growth. I add weight or about 2 reps every workout and i often have no soreness, especially in certain muscles that just don't get sore for me very often.

The only time i get much soreness anymore is from completely new exercises done at different rep schemes. I adapt quickly, do more volume than most of you, and really don't get very sore. I still get stronger and bigger.

The funny thing about this is that no one even knows WHY you get sore so to link it directly to muscle growth is fairly random.

"a rule of thumb" and saying "WILL" as an absolute contradict each other.

speed dawg just curious how much do you lift?

Rampage1 said:

hey effort, I am just going to do it for 3-4 weeks to get some quick growth and then will go back on to heavy weights to shock the system.

this is how im doing it: Monday chest and back

Wednesday legs

Friday shoulders and arms

I am doing one movement for each bodypart, which is the following:

chest: flat bench

back: barbell row

legs: squat

shoulders: military press

biceps: dumbell curls

Triceps: cable pulldowns

As for the soreness topic I have felt sore in my chest the day after monday's workout. Just need to make sure I get my 6 meals in a day, though I am going to have to eat cleaner than before as I want gains to be lean this time! (my last cycle I made massive gains but also made fat gains!) P.s. i can't afford it at the minute but I am going to get some creatine an glutamine next week hopefully.

What you think of the routine for the next few weeks?

Click to expand...

looks fine to me....the only thing i would do is replace cable pulldowns with skull crushers

mrRuckus said:

You just need to go beyond what they're comfortable doing at their current adaptation. You can still get a growth stimulus without soreness............."a rule of thumb" and saying "WILL" as an absolute contradict each other.

Click to expand...

I agree with both statements. I probably shouldn't have said "will". But it is my rule of thumb that I've personally gotten results from. I like a lot of variety anyway, so it works for me.

kickureface said:

speed dawg just curious how much do you lift?

Click to expand...

Right now, after a long hiatus with a herniated disc, I can 1RM bench press 255 and I won't squat any more than 225. I don't deadlift or power clean right now. In early 2006 before my back problems, I was around 285 bench, 350 squat and 200 power clean. I usually never maxed on deadlift, repped at the end with 225. 5'10", 195 lbs.