Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Swinggcat #1 pickup artist's beliefs for PRIZING

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Important beliefs for PRIZING
1. No matter how psychotic it seems, most men that I know, who are good with women, have the unwavering belief that they are the PRIZE. Furthermore, they are good at conveying this unwavering belief to women (we will talk about conveying this belief to women when we talk about frames and PRIZING).
2. They have the unwavering belief that women are wonderful creatures who both love sex and want to please. Having this belief will stop you from being bitter. Being bitter is a sure way to prevent you from being able to PRIZE women. Definitely a bad thing!
3. Many of my friends have the belief that they know a woman and her body better than she does. This belief will come in handy when we talk about PRIZING women.
4. No matter what the woman’s reaction to you is there is always something beneficial to learn. This is actually one of my beliefs. I found that when I started viewing negative reactions I got from some women not as personal attacks on my character, but as opportunities to learn something useful, my ability to PRIZE women skyrocketed.
5. Whenever a woman tells you that she does not like something about you or that you are doing, it is her own issue, not yours (This applies to when you first meet women).
6. No matter what her current reaction to you (or her current situation) is, she still wants (or will sleep with) you. All you need to do is structure the right context to let it happen. This will come in handy when we talk about frames and reframes.
7. You do not need validation from her, yet she is trying to get validation from you. Having this belief is yet another aspect of believing and being the PRIZE—very powerful indeed.
8. Every woman on some level wants you. The question is: Do you want them? Do they live up to your standards and expectations? This will come in handy when we talk about frames, and Qualifying & Challenging. So, keep this belief in your back pocket.
9. Since she is courting you—trying to win you over—you get to DECIDE whether or not the both of you will sleep together. This is a big part of establishing the frame of her chasing you.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Women love men and especially love me.

Women love sex and want sex from me.

Women love to be hit on even if they pretend they hate it.

Women are nurturers and pleasers and want to please and nuture me.

No matter what a woman's reaction to me is, there's always something positive to learn.

Whenever a woman tells me she doesn't like something about me or something I'm doing, it's her issue, not mine.

I don't need a woman's validation, she needs mine.

No matter how she's reacting to me, she's getting aroused.

No matter how psychotic it seems, I'm the prize she's trying to win over.

Since she wants to sleep with me, the power's in my court to decide if she lives up to my standards and expectations. I get to decide if we're going to sleep together.

Set the meta-frame:
That you are the PRIZE.
That she is trying to get you to like her or trying to win you over—whether it be in the sense of attraction, acceptance or validation.
That she wants you so bad that she is trying to make you sleep with her.
The both of you are going to sleep together, but only if she lives up to your standards and expectations:

ADVENTUROUS
SPONTANEOUS
STRONG
UP FOR A CHALLENGE
GOOD WIT (SARCASM)
SOPHISTICATION
OPTIMIST
NOT AFRAID TO TAKE CHANCES
CLASSY

I will not tolerate:
DRAMA
NEEDINESS
DISHONESTY
DISRESPECT
FLAKINESS
TRASHINESS

Framing one or more of her actions, behaviors, or things about her as meaning that she is not good enough for me or cannot handle me (this implicates that I am the PRIZE and that I might not go for her because she falls short of my standards and expectations).
Framing one or more of her actions as her being interested or trying to pursue me (this implicates that I am the PRIZE that she is trying to win me over, that she wants to sleep with me, and etc.).
Framing one or more of her behaviors or actions as her being a little crazy (when a woman is trying to get you to buy into a frame and you view it as her saying something really out there, or as something that has no place in objective reality, it inoculates the frame and Let’s her know that you are unwilling to buy into it).
When framing her behaviors, actions, or something about her as meaning that she lacks class, it implicates many great things, one of which is that I am the one who is the PRIZE in the interaction.
Framing her behaviors, actions, or something about her, as meaning that she is a goober (slang for someone who is socially inept), implicates lots of good stuff. One is that since I am cool and she is a goober, I get to judge her behaviors but, since she is a goober, she is ill fit to judge mine. Two is that it sets me up as being the one who is the PRIZE in the interaction.
Accusing her of not really living the life that she wants to live (or accusing her of being envious of me). Both of these are great ways of implicating that I am the one who is the PRIZE.
Framing some of her behaviors, actions or things about her as meaning that she is a little creepy (girls often times call guys creepy and there is nothing that messes with a girl worse than me letting her know that I think she is a little creepy. God I love this one). This one can be used to implicate that she wants me but that I would never go for her because she falls short of my standards and expectations.
Framing some of her behaviors, actions, or things about her as meaning that she is a sleaze ball (this is another great way to implicate that she wants me but that I am not so sure if she will live up to my standards and expectations).
Framing her behaviors and actions as being rude or insensitive (this implicates that she is not living up to my standards and expectations).
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Whenever a woman tells you she doesn't like you or, something you're doing, it's Her issue, not yours. Most men when a woman tells them that, she doesn't like something they're doing or something about them, they immediately think, that there's something wrong with them, that they need to change themselves or some behavior that they are doing, and a great example of this is from the movie "Saving Silverman." In the movie, the protagonist, Darin Silverman, is engaged to this woman named Judith, who was really really hot, what was actually played by Amanda Peete, and in the movie Judith does not approve of Darin's friends and she doesn't approve of the music he listens to, so Darin starts changing himself, he stops hanging out with his friends, he stops listening to the music he likes. Now, this is a Great example of what Not to do with women, because it communicates to women that you have a weak sense of self, a weak sense of identity, that you look to others to tell you what to do, that you're an approval-seeking validation-hungry little lap-dog, who's trying to win women over. In other words, it establishes that she's the prize, not you, and as you know, women feel no attraction towards men who aren't the prize. Also, when a woman tells you that she doesn't like something about you or something you're doing and you think that it's your issue, that you need to change it, it's gonna stop you from pushing the envelope, from trying out tactics and skillsets that, you might normally do because you're gonna be self-conscious, and because you do it's gonna prevent your skillset with women from flourishing. Also, women often times will test men to see if they can get men to, change for them, and when a man changes too quickly, a woman knows that, he's not a real man, that he has a weak sense of self and identity, and he's basically like a little puppy that's looking for someone to tell him what to do. At this point a woman's going to, move on, or if she's a real (rhymes with 'witch') she's gonna step all over the guy. Avoid this belief like the plague. You're better off. Instead, have the belief that Whenever a woman tells you she doesn't like something about you, it's Her issue, not yours. This is gonna, let her know, she's dealing with a Real man, someone with a Very strong sense of self, strong identity, who's the prize she has to win over.

Now a few words of warning. If you've approached a Lot of women, and you keep getting the same bad reaction, well then maybe you need to assess what you're doing. Now a Lot of women is not 3 or 4 women or even 5 or 6. I've been out with guys who, will, tell me, "Oh my God, I've approached soo many women and I keep getting the same bad reaction. I'm Such a loser" and I'll be like, "How many women did you approach?" and they'll be like, "Two, multiple women." Not enough, ok? If you've approached even nine women and you get the same bad reaction, it's their issue, not yours. If you've approached like 30 women and you keep getting that same bad reaction well then maybe you need to fine-tune or assess what you're doing. So work on developing the belief that, whenever a woman tells you she doesn't like something about you or something you're doing, it's Her issue, not yours.

You do Not need a woman's validation, she needs yours. Ok, most guys spend a lot of time, trying to prove to women how, funny they are or, how smart they are, or how rich they are, or how successful they are, or how, Manly they are, but most women know no matter How hard a guy tries to impress her, he's a validation-hungry little worker-bee, because he's conveying to her, how desperate he is for her validation, and he is conveying to her that he has the belief that he needs a woman's validation, for her to Feel attraction towards him. When you believe you need a woman's validation, you're communicating to her that she's the prize, you wanta win over, and that you're an approval-seeking lap dog, and you've got, styrofoam for a back-bone. This is probably the quickest way to turn a woman off, so if there's a woman in your life that's stalking you and you wanta get rid of her, start seeking her validation, my promise, she'll be gone in no time. Since women feel No attraction towards men who aren't the prize, you're better off believing she wants your validation and you could care less if you get hers.

No matter how she's reacting to you, she's getting aroused. Most men view women as, non-sexual creatures, they've got to turn sexual. This assumes that, you've got to Do something to a woman to turn her on, you've gotta do something to her to get her aroused. The problem is, it causes her to be the prize in the interaction, and as you know woman feel, no attraction to men who aren't the prize, so that's problem #1. Problem #2 is it's gonna create a lot of fear and anxiety inside you, to get sexual with her. Years ago, a friend of mine, could get tons of numbers from women, tons of dates, get them back to his house, even get them into his bed, but he could Not make that first move, to get sexual with them, because he believed that, he really couldn't arouse a woman, he really couldn't turn her on. Unfortunately, this debilitating belief cost him a lot of, really interesting experiences with women, luckily he's moved past that and definately doesn't have this problem. But I think a much better starting point is to assume women are Sexual to begin with, and that everything you're doing is arousing them, Even if they call you "ugly" and "stupid" and so on, ok? You're arousing them. Years ago, I trained my perceptual filters to, process everything I did as arousing a woman. Now I've been in situations where friends of mine thought I was doing pretty poor with a woman, but the way I saw it, I was arousing her, she was getting massively aroused, and after a while, she'd start buying into that reality too, and my friends would turn around to find me making out with the woman.

No matter how psychotic it seems, no matter how a woman reacts to you, You are the prize, she is trying to win over. This is a Really empowering belief, and I have a friend of a friend of mine who's, bald, he's about 5'2", he's neither funny, nor charming nor smart, and to make matters worse, he's missing a hand, and so inevitably when he goes up to women, sometimes they're a little weirded-out by the missing hand, but any sort of bad reaction this guy gets, he just Shunts out of his reality. He's so focused on the fact that He is the prize, they're trying to win over, and inevitably what happens is women get sucked into his reality, they start seeing him as a prize, they want to win over. So No matter How psychotic it seems, no matter how a woman reacts to you, you are the prize She is trying to win over.

Ok, since she wants to sleep with you, the power's in your court to decide if she lives up to your standards and expectation. Ok, you have the power to decide if you're gonna sleep with her or not. You get to decide, not her.
 

collalife

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
242
Reaction score
3
Location
bay area
good post
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Taking a strong lead. This is really, really important. A great analogy is to think of ballroom dancing. In ballroom dancing, it's the man that takes the lead, ok? If the man fails to take the lead, he's established that he cannot dance. Attraction, works similar to this. If you fail to take the lead, you've established you aren't the prize, and because of this women will feel no attraction towards you. Does this mean you, always have to take a strong lead? Not at all. Sometimes I enjoy being the big passive bottom, taking the back seat. For example, sometimes I'll have a woman come to my house. She'll think I'll have a Whole evening planned. And I'll say to her, "So, what are we doing tonight?" and then I'll kind of lean back, cross my hands behind my head, and give her a smug expression. And she'll usually squirm a bit and then maybe if she's up-to-par she'll conjure up something. Now this is great, because it's putting the onus on her. It's challenging her. It's almost like a reverse leading.

But under no circumstances do you wanta demonstrate, an incompetence to lead. What I'm talking about is indecisiveness. So, maybe you're out with a woman, and you start hemming and hawing over where to take her, ok? Women are gonna pick up on this. And they're gonna know that you aren't the PRIZE, and this is gonna scuttle any attraction they would have possibly felt for you. Maybe you're out with a woman that you really want to kiss, but you're hesitating. Well women are intuitive. They pick up on this. And they're gonna make you squirm a bit. And the more you squirm, the more they're gonna know you're incompetent as leading, establishing that you're not the PRIZE, and women are going to feel no attraction towards you. So, learn to be decisive. Learn to take a strong lead.

Other important attributes to have?
Having standards and expectations. Years ago, I decided that I was only going to go for women that were, sexually adventurous and spontaneous and bi-sexual. And if they fell short of that criteria, I was gonna to have to turn them down, even if they had "supermodel" good-looks. Now you might be thinking to yourself, "Wow, Swinggcat, your sex-life must have been restricted to internet porn, being so picky, and snobby and judgemental." Well, just the opposite happened. My sex-life flourished. I had more women in my life than I could handle. And I think there's some reasons why. One is women thought, "Wow, this guy must have an abundance of beautiful women in his life to, turn down so many beautiful women." Two is that, it communicated to women that I had the belief that I was the PRIZE that they were trying to attract. Most guys act so, needy around beautiful women, hoping that that beautiful woman will, allow them to go into their pants, that I was a novelty. I was making them, Earn a right to get into My pants. They had to earn it. And because of this, I established myself as the one they had to win. So I encourage you to develop standards and expectations and a really High bottom line.

Next attribute: Bringing her into your world. Let me give you an all-too familiar scenario. Boy meets girl. Boy gets girl's phone number. Boy calls girl. Boy sets up date. Girl says, "Great, can't wait to meet up with you." Two hours before the date, girl calls boy in a frantic frenzy and says, "I'm so sorry. I, I have other plans. Why don't we meet up next week? I'm going to a bar with some friends and you can come meet up with us." So boy, shagrinned that she flaked, is at least happy that he gets to meet up with her next week, there's a little seat of hope there. So he shows up at the bar. He doesn't know a soul. He's hanging on her lap all like a little baby, he's like her little lap dog, she has to introduce him to everyone. She's taking the lead. She is the one he's trying to attract. She, will feel no attraction to this man. Please do not do this. Bring women into your world when first meeting them, unless you're Very skilled at this stuff, then the rules kind of change, and it's ok to go into her world, because you can connect with Her friends better than She connects with her friends.

But if you're just starting out, and you meet a woman, it's always better to bring her into your world. Go out with her alone, just you and her, or bring her around your friends that already like you, and she'll kind of hang on your side. You'll be kind of like the comfort zone. She'll be taking your lead, and will see you as the PRIZE she wants to attract. You're better off that way.

Now if you've known a woman for a while, it's ok to go into her world. If you don't you're a bit of a control freak, and you shouldn't be reading this. No, I'm kidding. In all seriousness, you want to bring a woman into your world when first meeting her. You'll be better off for it. She'll see you as the PRIZE she wants to win.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Next attribute is making women accommodate you, ok? Most guys accommodate women, ok? So if they're driving with a woman and, the woman starts complaining about the sort of music they're playing, they start probing her to find out what sort of music she likes. They can "impress" her. Or if they're going out to eat with a woman, they'll probe her to find out what she likes, ok? Most guys rationalize this as them being nice guys. I used to be one of these guys, that's how I know about this. But this is a bunch of BS. Guys don't do this cause they're nice guys. They do it because they want to win points with a woman. They wanta win her over. They wanta get her validation and approval. But when you Do this, it sets the stage that She's the one You're trying to attract. It will, squelch any attraction that would have possibly been there, ok? Don't do this. Make women accommodate you, ok? So if you're out with a woman and you're driving somewhere, and she maybe doesn't like the music you're playing and she says, "Is That Gunz n' Roses?" say something like, "Genius, you should be on Jeopardy." Or, if you're going out to eat with a woman, take her to a place You like, ok? It's a good thing, unless, of course, you want to go to a Fondue restaurant and she happens to be lactose intolerant, ok for your Own sake, that's gonna be a catastrophe. Don't do that.

But make women accommodate you. When you make women accommodate you, it Brings them into Your world. It is taking a strong lead. It's showing a woman that you have high standards and expectations. And it establishes Yourself as the PRIZE she needs to attract, ok? Work on making women accommodate you. You'll see a Huge difference in how women react to you.

Here's a Really important one: Being Challenging. Women have a tendency to feel attraction towards challenging men. They have a tendency to see challenging men as the prize they want to win over, ok? When you are, challenging with a woman, it demonstrates that you can take a strong lead, it brings women, it literally Sucks them into your world, it makes them accommodate you, it shows that you have standards and expectations that they have to live up to, and it keeps them on their toes. It takes them on an emotional rollercoaster. And I've found that more emotions you can make a woman feel, the higher the likelihood that she's gonna feel attraction towards you.

Let's say you want to go skydiving and you've been talking to Sally on the phone, she's never been skydiving before, maybe you say to her, "Sally, you know how I like adventurous women, and ah, I'm going skydiving today, so it's a great opportunity for you to earn some adventures and points with me. But if you don't go, I'll know you're chicken, and you'll screw up all your chances of getting to know me better, you know, and this relationship isn't going to work out if you don't go." So let's say she, you know, keep it kind of tongue in cheeky, Let's say that she decides to take you up on the challenge and she comes skydiving with you, ok? She's never been before. You're taking her into an unfamiliar world, you're making her accomodate you, you're making her live up to your standards and expectations. All of this is taking a Wickedly strong lead. Additionally, skydiving is an emotional rollercoaster. How could you do any better than this?

Here's a Really important one: Having a sense of humor. Years ago, a good friend of mine said something really profound to me, he said, "You can get away with Anything, if you say it with enough authority." Now I found this to be very true, I've also found that if you say anything in a way that's funny enough, you can get away with it. There's a great quote from Iceberg Slim's book "Pimp" he says, "A pimp is happy when his hoes are laughing cause he Knows that they're asleep." And I'm not lauding the pimp lifestyle or claiming that all women are "Hoes," but I Do know that, when you get a woman laughing, her guard goes down, ok? Everything is easier. It's much easier to attract a woman when you have her laughing. So, do whatever you need to do to develop your sense of humor. Also, reading a lot of fiction will help.

The next attribute I want to discuss is advertising costly signals. This is something that, Very few guys actually do, but it's really important. Most guys shudder at the thought of messing up their chances with a woman. Most guys are very conscientious of messing up their chances with women. For example, they, will go out of the way to, avoid conversation topics that, might offend a woman, or to hide aspects of their personality that a woman might find crass or pathetic or dorky. And I should know, I used to be this exact same way. I thought if I could hide all aspects of my personality that might turn a woman off that, I could transform myself into a rockstar with women. Unfortunately, the opposite happened and it put my success with women on life support. But as I, waded further down this path the universe was nice enough to leave me some bread crumbs leading me in the right direction. One day I was sitting around of all things watching Superman with my little cousin and it dawned on me that Superman is not a superhero because, of all his, powers. He's a superhero because of kryptonite, because of his achilles heel. And if you're Really perceptive, you're probably thinking to yourself well of course, kryptonite humanizes him, it makes him one of us, we can relate to him. And that's part of it, but I realized that there was something deeper here, there were some other, underlying mechanisms at work when I read an evolutionary biologist by the name of Emmitt Sohvi. Typically in school, we're taught that the animal who advertises signals or characteristics that are most fit for survival is the one that's most likely, to be picked by the opposite sex. But Sohvi poses the question, "Why is it that animals spend so much time, advertising costly signals, advertising characteristics of themselves that are Unfit for survival?" and he says it's because that's what the opposite sex is attracted to. So for example, in the wild the peacock has this big colorful plumage that's Anything but fit for survival, ok? There's no perk about having a big colorful plumage for surviving. Poor bastard has to lug around a truckload full of feathers and his big colorful plumage makes him stick out like a sore thumb to predators. But the Message that he's sending the peahen is "Despite having this disadvantage, I'm alive, healthy, and ready to mate, baby."
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
The next attribute is making women feel comfortable. Now, this is not what most guys think it is. Most guys think they need to make women feel comfortable through, maybe asking them a lot of questions ah, catering to their every whim, saying stuff like, "Are you ok? do you want a drink?" yadayadayada. Very bad, will squelch any attraction that's there. Actually makes women a lot of times feel uncomfortable, because on a sub-textual level it communicates that, you're not comfortable with yourself, that's why you're so concerned about her being comfortable, ok? You're worried that she's uncomfortable, ok? Also, it communicates whether you thinking this or not she's gonna think this, that, you're trying hard because maybe you want something from her. If you want to learn how to make women feel comfortable, be comfortable with them being uncomfortable. Learn to become comfortable in your own skin. Learn to, be comfortable around women. When you're really comfortable with your buddies, for example, you're comfortable with saying stuff that might make them feel uncomfortable because that's how comfortable You are and because of that they're actually more comfortable.

Another Great attribute is being a dandy. The modern term for dandy, I'd say, is mexasexual. One thing you can do to become more of a dandy is develop a feminine sense of style and humor, so maybe instead of, making only sport jokes, start making some wisecracks about people's fashion. Maybe talk about how, some popstar's fashion is so ridiculously heinous, I don't know whatever. Another thing you can do is start noticing details that only other women notice, so just like girls are always noticing when guys,' flys are undone, be the first to notice when a woman's panties are sticking out or her bra is sticking out and be the first to comment too. Also, learn to judge women in the way that they judge men. So just like a woman is always the first to let a guy know that he's really losing points with her because he's genuinely creepy or wierd or a sleezeball, start doing this back to women, it's really really powerful. Another thing you can do, this is Really dandy stuff, is start Baiting women into thinking that they are the sexual initiators, they are the pursuers, ok? Most guys, end up getting baited by the woman into being the sexual initiator or pursuer. Turn this around on women. Make them think that they are the sexual initiators and pursuers. Now, if you just let the woman take the lead and you play the big passive bottom, then you're just a big feminine wussy. This will not work. What you have to do is after you have baited them into thinking that they're the sexual initiator, you have to sweep them off their feet, you have to let them know that you are a real man, maybe grab them really close to you and plant a big ole kiss on them, I don't know.

So the idea is not to be a big feminine wussbag. The idea is to be a strong man mixed with a hint of femininity, and I think a Great example of this is Rudolph Valentino. When he first came to this country, came to New York as an Italian immigrant, he worked as a taxi dancer, which is basically a male escort. He'd take women out, twirl them around, flirt with them, and then they'd pay him a fee. If he slept with them or not, I don't know. But he worked as a taxi dancer and he became the most famous taxi dancer in all of New York. And he was notorious for wearing corsetes that made his body look trimmer and wearing very high fashion and being very attentive to women, he was very very feminine. And this led him to Hollywood where he became a big Hollywood sex symbol, and in one of his most famous roles "Sheik," he played an Arab prince who rescued this English woman, and then conquered her in a way that teetered on rape. And there's this Great line in the movie where she says, "Why are you taking me here?" and he rebuts with, "Are you not Woman enough to know?" Now, this almost seems cruel and it's very strong and masculine, but while all this is going on he's wearing very heavy eye makeup and a big flowing robe. And she ends up falling in love with him. Women swooned for Rudolph Valentino over this movie, and I think the key is that he mixed the feminine with the masculine. And some other men throughout history that were masters at mixing the feminine with the masculine, some consumate dandys, are Oscar Wilde, Prince, Mick Jagger, and John F. Kennedy. Learn to mix the masculine with the feminine and you'll see a huge boost, in the way, women react to you and your success with women.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
The next attribute is the Coquette. Most guys think that women are gonna stop feeling attraction towards them if they don't Show her enough interest or if they act cruel or selfish or mean. They think if they don't compliment her or don't fight to win her over by buying her lots of expensive dinners and fancy drinks and taking her shopping, that she's gonna stop feeling attraction towards him. This is non-sense. Nothing could be further from the truth. Women are repulsed by men who do these things. When you act in these ways, women feel claustrophobic. It lets them know that you're a needy, little lap-dog ***** and it let's Them control the frame. It defines the frame that they are the PRIZE you are trying to attract.

The Coquette does the opposite of this. The Coquette is a master at making women, wait and want and reach for pleasure and satisfaction. He baits women into thinking for example that he's interested or he wants to get intimate with them or physical with them and then he, pulls back, he takes it away. And this compells women to want and reach and chase for more of him. Some examples of this? Maybe looking a woman in the eyes pulling her into you implying that you're gonna kiss her, but then pushing her away making her feel a little frustrated, yet leaving her wanting more. Another example might be, acting warm and charming towards a woman giving her lots of compliments, but then maybe a few hours later, criticizing her or expressing something about her that Really annoys you. Now it's best if the criticism is true, if it comes from the heart, and it's genuine, and it's gonna be more powerful. Also if you can add a little humor to it, that doesn't hurt either, it's not necessary, but it can make it more powerful. So for example maybe, tell a woman what a wonderful smile she has, how it makes you feel sooo amazing inside, but then maybe like an hour later, let her know that her breath really stinks. Maybe say to her, "Your breath, really smells bad and neither I nor anyone else here can endure it any longer, so please take this breath mint to save us all." Now sometimes it can be powerful not to state the criticism explicitly. Sometimes being subtle can be really powerful. So here's something I've used before, if maybe I've complimented a woman, I've been really warm to her, I've complimented her on smile or something like that, maybe like an hour later, and only if she genuinely has bad breath, what I'll do is I'll pull out a tic tac or a breath mint and I'll hold it out in front of her and inevitably she'll take it, she'll put it in her mouth, and then she'll say, "Do I have bad breath?" Now instead of, explicitly saying, "Yes" what I'll do is I'll kind of look at her and then I'll smirk. And what this does is this makes her read into it, ok? which is really powerful too. And then she might say something like, "Oh, I'm sorry I ate a bunch of garlic bread earlier tonight" or she might say "I'm sorry, I just had the stomach flu" or maybe if she's a really dirty girl she might say, "Oh, I'm sorry I'm taking this horrible medication for the clap and it makes my breath really smell."

By the Coquette, taunting and baiting a woman with something that she wants and then pulling back and taking it away, he's creating the necessary emotional space for her anticipation and desire towards him to grow into a jungle the size of the rain forest. Most guys screw up, because they act needy. They don't give women this emotional space. They don't know how to create that emotional space, and instead of there being a jungle of anticipation and desire, it's a desert, there is none. So learn to create this emotional space. Remember the example I gave you of, pulling a woman really close to you, and then right before she thinks she's about to get kissed, pushing her away? Well what most guys do, if they kiss a woman and she rejects them, what they do is they lean in further to try and get the kiss. BAD move. What a coquette will do, especially if he's around a woman whom he's not sure is into him or, I don't know, for whatever reason he gets the feeling she doesn't like him. What he'll do at a certain point is he'll boldly grab her really tight and really close to him, look her right in the eyes like he's about to kiss her and just when she thinks he's gonna kiss her before she has a chance to reject him, he pushes her away. Now this is really powerful because even if, she really didn't like him and she didn't want to kiss him, there's a good chance she's gonna be thinking to herself, "Now, what would it have been like to kiss this guy?" All of that anticipation and desire that didn't exist in her before will be an f-ing jungle inside her.

Coquettes are notoriously narcissistic, they're in love with themselves, and they're completely self-sufficient. They don't need other people, but people have a tendency to need them. This implicates the picture that they are the prize women are trying to win over. Coquettes are masters at sending mixed signals. Everything they do is ambiguous. So they might, show a woman that they can't stand her, but at the same time adore her for example. This compells women to want and reach and chase for more of you.

Coquettes never completely deny women from what they want, yet they never let them fully possess it. Women have a masochistic side to them. The harder they have to work for something the more value they're gonna put on it. Think of women as like a little mouse and you're a piece of cheese. The harder they have to work for that piece of cheese, the more they're gonna put value on it. Ok, but if you make them think that it's impossible to get the cheese, then they're gonna give up completely. So the idea is to make them work for it, make them earn it, but don't make them think it's impossible. Being a Coquette does not stop women from wanting you, it makes them more a, "Does he still like me? Has he lost interest in me?" It makes them want to prove to you that you still like them. Also, it creates an emotional rollercoaster for them. An emotional rollercoaster is a really important element to, attracting women, making them want and reach and chase for more of you. Right now on TV there's these awful shows called Soap Oprahs, they're horrible. I think No man in his right mind would watch such a stupid show unless he was gay,
but women love these shows because they vicariously get to experience a whole spectrum of emotions, they get taken through all of this drama and suspense and it's really enjoyable for them. Likewise, I think this is why, many women are attracted to abusive men, men who beat them, make fun of them or whatever. It's because these men take them on an emotional rollercoaster. You can take a woman on an emotional rollercoaster without being abusive.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
The next attribute I wanta discuss with you is the Rake. I think all guys I know that are amazing with women and are masters of establishing themselves as the PRIZE, have at least some of Rake aspects to their personality. And typically there are three qualities that Rakes have: They're irrisistably attractive to women, they have an uncontrollable devotion to pleasure, and they have a disdain for convention. All three of these qualities are interconnected. The first quality of the rake, that women find him irrisistably attractive. Now the First reason they find him irrisistably attractive is because of his womanizer reputation, a lot of other women desire him. So if you're a womanizer and have a womanizer reputation, don't downplay it, embrace it. One thing I learned years ago is that, win-ability is contagious. If a woman sees that a lot of other women see you as a prize they wanta win over, that a lot of other women desire you, chances are she's gonna start feeling that way too. A friend of mine calls this "efficient cattle-herding." Now women might get pissed off at you, they might a scrupple with your, player reputation, they might be disgusted with you, but secretly and maybe even on an unconscious level they're titillated by your player reputation. So if you downplay it, you risk losing your rake appeal. Women are attracted to me who are desired by, other women. The next reason why women find the Rake irrisistably attractive, is that he's a master at flattery. In push/pull, Raking would be the pull. He knows how to, validate every woman in the right way, making her guard come tumbling down, he knows women's weak spots. So for example, if a woman wants to be seen as beautiful, he'll make her feel like a supermodel. If she wants to be thought of as, smart, he'll make her feel like a genius. But the rake doesn't necessarily tell a woman that she's beautiful or smart, he might but his real focus of attention is on doing things that make her feel validated as beautiful or smart. He's more focused on, not what he says but the effect he has on a woman. A lot of guys think that women want to be validate for their, beauty. In fact, they think that this is the only way women want to be validated. And this is just plain not true. There's a whole plethora of ways women want to be validated and one of them is that women, by nature, are nuturers, they like to mother. So one thing that I've done, is if I'm sick, I will prod and goad a woman into taking care of me into weening me back to health. I'll let her bring me food, I'll let her cook for me, I'll let her clean my clothes whatever. This lets a woman know that she's important to me and as a result, I become important to her. A form of flattery that's so powerful it will make women addicted to you. The third reason why women find the Rake irrisistably attractive is because he vaguely and suggestively communicates sex to women. This might not even be something that he says. It could be something that he does compelling her to read into it on an unconscious level so subtle she's not even consciously aware of it. Maybe innocently asking a woman for directions while looking into her eyes like you want to fvck her or holding onto a woman's hand and maintaining eye-contact just a split second beyond normal social convention, and then maybe turning your back on her and talking to someone else compelling her to read into it on an unconscious level. The effect is that she starts feeling aroused without realizing that the feelings came from you. This is gonna help set the stage that you're the prize she's trying to win over. The next characteristic of the Rake is his uncontrollable devotion to pleasure. This is a form of flattery so powerful that it will make women feel addicted to you. If you've got PRIZE-ability with a woman, if she feels attraction for you, she's wanting and reaching and chasing for more of you, one of the best things you can do is to make her Feel that she has power over you, even if it's only for a moment and even if it's only for a little bit. You're making her Feel that she's seducing You. After a woman's into me and I know she feels attraction for me I might say to her, "Don't look at me that way" and then I might bite my lower lip and then grab her really close to me as if I can't restrain myself and then push her away and say, "We hardly even know each other, don't make me do that." Another one might be, to confess to her that you can hardly restrain yourself from kissing her, but that you're not gonna kiss her because you don't know her that well. Or here's another one I've used, telling her, "I'm afraid to be alone with you, in fear of what you might make me do." So after you play the Coquette maybe making her chase you, once she's into you, it's a good time to show her some of Your desire for her. Maybe grab her and passionately start kissing her. Get lost in your desire for her, let it consume you. Mood, this mood is contagious and likewise she's gonna get lost in her desire for you, she's gonna allow it to consume her. To seduce someone you have to at least some extent be seduced, if you want someone to surrender to you, you to some extent need to surrender to them.

By nature, I'm very coquettish, but there's always a point during love-making when I reveal my rake side to a woman, where I show her my uncontrollable desire for her. I allow my desire for her to completely consume me, I totally get lost in it, and as a result, women, get lost in their desire for me, they let it consume them. A word of caution: this is validationless surrender. So if you're coming from the place of needing a woman's validation of being an approval-seeking little puppy dog, and then you show your uncontrollable desire for a woman, well guess what? She's gonna feel no attraction towards you. She might even be, repulsed by you, because she's gonna know you're not the prize, and as you already know, women feel no attraction towards men who aren't the prize. On the other hand if you come from the place of being the prize of her needing Your validation, but You not needing hers, and then you show her your, uncontrollable desire for her, it's gonna have a Very profound effect on her. Even if the rake is a liar, a cheater, and a womanizer, most women will forgive him, because unlike the calculating player, he's weak and vulnerable. Even if he's been with a thousand women, Most women could care less, because of his uncontrollable desire, for That moment in time he makes women feel like they're the most Special girl in the Entire universe. The Rake's desire is soo out of control and so powerful, that it consumes the woman and the woman begins feeling that Same desire towards him, and it renders her critical factor brain-dead, and she can't even process or think about the consequences. The idea is not to act like a complete wuss. The idea is to hint or momentarily or in a specific context, let go of control, let your desire take you over, and then maybe go back to being the Coquette.

The third characteristic of the Rake, is his disdain for convention. He's usually witty and sarcastic, think of maybe Han Solo from Star Wars, and there's something insideous and dangerous about him. It's interesting because the word "rake" actually comes from the word "rakehell" which means the "person who rakes the coals of Hell." He's the guy that little girls' fathers always warned them, but they ended up with that guy anyways. He's the guy that, taunts women's repressed desires that society condemns. He awakes inside women what Carl Young would call the "shadow side" of women. He's the forbidden fruit. He's the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

The last thing I wanta say about the Rake is women's need to change him. Women always want to change this bohemian, hedonistic man, but it ends up that it's a disguise, for, women's real intentions, which is, they get a rush from being with this sort of man.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Frames & Metaframes

In every male/female interaction, all of the guys' behaviors and actions, all of the girls' behaviors and actions, have an underlying meaning to them, and this is what I call a frame. And then in every male/female interaction, there's an Overall underlying meaning to the interaction, and that's what I call the metaframe. The metaframe is kind of like the big frame that all the small frames fit inside of. And every frame, implies the metaframe. Imagine a guy is in a bar, spots are Really hot girl, thinks to himself, "bouncy bouncy" walks up to her, says to her, "You are just soo beautiful" chats to her for a bit, and then she smugly looks at him and says, "Go get me an apple martini." So he goes and gets her the drink she wants, he actually thinks he's winning points with her. Now imagine another guy, same bar/same girl, walks up to her, chats her up for a little bit, and she says to him, "Go get me an apple martini" and he kind of chuckles, "Ha ha ha" and he says, "Is that your best pickup line?" Now I'm willing to bet the first guy doesn't have a chance in Hell, unless she's maybe an escort or something, he doesn't have a chance in Hell of scoring with her. The second guy has got a chance and let's look at why. By the first guy rewarding her, bad behavior by him getting her a drink, he's setting the frame that he's no better than a battered woman, that he's basically the big, passive bottom to her verbal gangbang, that he's got no back-bone. And this is implying the metaframe that she is the prize that he is trying to win over. Now with the second guy by him, interpretting or setting the frame, setting the underlying meaning of her saying "Buy me a drink" as meaning that it's a pickup line, that she's trying to impress him, he's setting the metaframe that He is the prize she is trying to win over. Now she may or may not get sucked into this reality, but at the very least, he's letting her know that he's unwilling to go into Her reality, and that he's the prize and she needs to deal with it, and for that he's better off.

You might be thinking that this whole talk about frames and metaframes as kind of silly because "meaning" is objective reality. Well, I'm here to tell you that that's a bunch of BS. The "meanings" of things, the underlying meaning of our behaviors and actions, and the underlying meaning of the overall underlying meaning of our interactions with women, are totally subjective. They Only exist inside the skulls of human beings. So when a woman says something rude to you and you walk away and feel like a loser, you've bought into her frame, ok? When a woman says something to you and you, flip it around on her like you laugh at her, you chuckle, you're letting her know that you're unwilling to buy into Her frame, and oftentimes she's gonna end up buying into your frame. So keep that in your back pocket that the meanings of things are subjective, they Only exist inside our skulls, and you can Always change the meaning of something.

A four-step method that will make it really easy to, establish the metaframe, to gain control of the metaframe, and to sustain it, to stay in control of it. Step one is to, Define the metaframe. Ok most male/female interactions, the guy does not bother to define the metaframe. This is what most guys do. They don't bother to define it, which that's a losing battle because if you don't define it, the woman is gonna define it for you, and she's gonna define it as her being the prize that you're trying to win over. Or the other thing that happens is, guys will define it, but they'll define it as the woman being the prize they're trying to win over, and as you know, women feel no attraction towards men who aren't the prize. So it's a losing battle. I always like to go into the situation defining the metaframe as, me being the prize, the woman is trying to win over, as her wanting to have sex with me, as her wanting to sleep with me, but I'm only gonna sleep with her if she lives up to my standards and expectations. Ok you don't have to define it exactly like that, but you better have some variant of you being the prize she's trying to win over. Step two, is to Assume the metaframe in advance. This means that, before you even start talking to a girl, you assume that you are a prize, she wants to win over. Several years ago at the beach with a buddy of mine and he started chatting up this Really attractive English girl, and he was telling her about his travels in Europe and she started to bust his balls telling him that, she thought he was a bull****ter and that he had never been to Europe, and then he throws her a curveball and then he says, "Are, are you bi-sexual?" and she says (looking at him like he's dog****) "Eww that's gross, I don't like girls" and he says, "Well, um, this relationship isn't gonna work out because, you'll bring home ugly girls" and she was like, "No no, I'll bring hot girls, I promise, I promise" and it was just amazing to see the interaction go from her being the prize he was trying to win over to him being the prize she was trying to win over. He kind of switched it around on her. And there's some Great linguistic tricks that he used to do this, but the reason he was able to do this and those linguistic tricks worked was because he assumed in advance that he was the prize she was trying to win over. The more you rehearse these beliefs, the easier and more automatic it's gonna become for you to assume this metaframe in advance with Every woman you interact with. There's also some great visualization exercises you can do to assume the metaframe in advance, and when you assume that metaframe in advance, it's gonna be very easier to establish the metaframe and to stay in control of it.

Step three - The art of Not choosing her. Most somewhat-to-really attractive women believe most men would jump in the sack with them in a heartbeat, and for the most part, they're right, most guys will take what they can get. In other words, women know that, for the most part, they're the choosers and guys go along for the ride, and I think there's several cases of human courtship that exemplify and make women assume this. First one is, it's usually the Guy that asks the woman to dance. Unless it's a junior-high dance where the guys are too shy to ask the women to dance and girls have to get up the gall to ask the guys, for the most part, men ask women to dance, and the woman can either reject the guy or she can dance with him. It's usually the Guy that asks the girl on a date. She can either say "Yes" or she can say "No" and go out with someone better. It's usually the Guy that asks for a woman's hand in marriage. She can either reject him and find someone else or she can tie the not and take all his money. It's interesting because, even when a woman likes a guy, usually she won't try and win him over. What she'll do is she'll do something to try and get the Guy to win her over. I've been at bars and I've spotted really attractive women and I could see they're interested in some guy, but instead of approaching the guy, they'll Do something to try and get the Guy to notice them, maybe they'll stick out their tits as they're walking by him, so He will approach Her. Now it's a brilliant frame, because even though she was the one who, initially liked him, she's made him buy into the metaframe that she's the prize, he's trying to win over. And in most cases, Women are the prize the man is trying to win over, this is just a horrible frame. And this is really a double-edged sword for women, because on one edge of the sword, they have this great power of being the prize, but on the Other edge of the sword, it's wrought with insecurities. They're never quiet sure if the guy is really choosing them or is really into them or if he's just some, hapless desparate loser who's, going along for the ride. And if he tries too hard to get her, if he jumps through too many hoops, then she stops feeling attraction for him, because women are not attracted to men who aren't the prize. So my advice to you is to Not choose a woman when first meeting her, and this isn't saying you should slam the door in her face by rejecting her completely. what I'm saying is, when you first meet a woman don't demonstrate to her that you like her so much as a prize you want to win over. Maybe then demonstrate that you like her, but that you hate her and the same time, maybe say to her, "You know, you have All the qualities I look for in another woman, and I'd so go for you if you were a little bit curvier" or, "a little bit skinnier." What this is doing is this is prodding and baiting her into trying to get you to like her. It sets the metaframe that you are the prize, she is trying to win over. And there's a great quote in the movie "Mean Girls" when the main character Lindsey Lohan says, "Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean you don't want them to like you." So even if you feel that a woman doesn't like you, by you letting her know that, you, only partially like her, you're gonna prod and bait her into her trying to get you to like her, and if you can do that, you've set the metaframe that you are the prize she is trying to win over, she's trying to get validation from, and if you can do that, you're half-way there to getting her attracted to you.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Step four is, setting frames that, implicate the metaframe that you are the prize she is trying to win over. This is my favorite. The first frame is letting a woman know that she falls short of your standards and expectations, but only by a hair. Now women, notoriously do this to men. They'll do things to men like, tell them they're the perfect guy, except there's this one little thing that makes them fall short of being the perfect guy. For example, they might say, "Oh you are the perfect man, except you're a little bit too short for me" or "you're a little bit too overweight for me." This implies the metaframe, that the woman is the prize the guy is trying to win over. Instead, do this back on women, ok? Tell a woman that maybe she's the perfect girl except for the fact that, you like blondes and she's a brunette or except that she's a little bit too tall for you or a little bit too goofy, or maybe say to her, "Do you have any bleach? Cause you'd be the perfect girl for me if Only you were a blond." Ok this sets the metaframe that you are a prize she is trying to win over, ok?

Here's another great one - Letting a woman know that although she's a great girl, she can't handle or keep up with you. Maybe, you're out with a woman and she's chugging along behind you because of her enormous heels, you could turn around and say, "You know if we're gonna hang out again, you're gonna need to get a cane, or a walker, cause I don't think you can keep up with me. Maybe I should introduce you to my, grandmother, maybe she'd be more your speed. I could see the two of you having the best time having one of those Wild and Crazy Friday nights dragracing your, motorized wheelchairs together." Or maybe you're bantering back and forth with a woman and you get her really good, you just nail her and she has no comeback, or she has a really stupid moment. You could say to her, "Either I'm too quick or you're too slow." Or you could say to her, "You know, you're a little slow on the uptake. My aunt works at a Special Ed school. Maybe she could introduce you to someone more your speed." Ok now all these are great because they, set the metaframe that you are the prize, She is trying to win over.

Framing her actions and behaviors as meaning, she's a little bit creepy, ok? Now how I define creepy is, letting a woman know that you're a little, suspicious of her. You haven't made any confirmations, but you've got a feeling something's terribly wrong. Maybe she's missing a few chromosomes or something. So for example if you're talking to a woman and, she keeps asking where you live, you can accuse her of being a little creepy, you can say something like, "You know, I hardly even know you, and you're already asking for detailed directions to my house, you're already trying to find out where I live. You're not gonna show up at my house tomorrow? expecting to move in? because if you are, I'm gonna have to get a restraining order against you, sorry." Or if a woman's a little bit too eager for your phone number, you can accuse her of being creepy. You can say something like, "You know I'm not too sure about giving you my number. You're not gonna call me like a billion times a day? because if you are, I'm gonna have to have my number changed, and that's really a pain in the ass, so I'm gonna have to think about giving you my number" ok? Another one is, if a woman buys you a drink, it's a nice gesture, but what does she want from you? it's a little bit creepy. So you could say something like, "Are you trying to get me drunk and drug me? so you can, take advantage of me in my sleep? You know, date-rape is a serious problem in this country." Ok so what all these do, is it sets the frame that you are the prize, she is trying to win over.

Framing one or more of her behaviors as meaning, she's a little bit crazy. Now crazy is stronger than creepy. You're confirming she's a certified nut-case. If a woman does something to try and get your attention, and she's trying a little bit too hard, like maybe you're talking to a buddy of yours and she keeps trying to touch you to get your attention, or maybe she's saying, "Listen, listen" you can frame That as her being crazy, and I think you should, because that is just unacceptable behavior. If a woman tries too many times to confirm that the two of you have plans, when she's like confirming for the seventh time that the two of you are getting together, a little bit insecure, a little bit too eager. You need to accuse her of being crazy. She deserves it. If you tease a woman, and she gets defensive or tries too hard to, explain herself, oh, accuse her of being a nutcase, works like a charm. Anything she does where, she acts a little bit too needy or too eager, you need to bust on her for being crazy. You need to frame the behavior as her being a nut-case. So here's some things you can say to a woman when, she, demonstrates these behaviors. Ok, you can say to her, "Did you, forget to take your lithium" or you could say, "If you keep it up, I'm gonna take you back to the looney bin" or could say, "If you continue acting this way, I'm gonna have to put you in a straight-jacket and give you electro-shock therapy." Now, all these are great because they imply, you're the prize, the woman is trying to win over.

Framing her behaviors or actions as meaning she's a bit, shady or untrustworthy. One thing I like to frame as a woman being a little bit shady or untrustworthy is an article of clothing that she's wearing, it's a bit off. Oftentimes you'll see these girls who will go out to the nightclubs and bars, during the evening, wearing these Huge big bug-eyed sunglasses, ok? THis is a great opportunity to frame them as being a bit, untrustworthy or shady. So I might say to a girl who, has these big sunglasses on, I might say to her, "You know what they say about girls who have big bug-eyed sunglasses on?" she might say, "What? what?" and I'll say, "Well they're a bit shady" or "You're not that trustworthy" ok? Also, you see girls in 90 degree wearing after ski-boots, Great opportunity to frame a girl as being untrustworthy or, as shady. I might say to her, "What's up with the boots?" and she'll say Blah blah blah, and I'll say, "You know, you're a bit shady, I mean, you're a bit untrustworthy, I don't know about you." Another great one is to, frame a woman as being shady or untrustworthy by the type of music she listens to. So for example maybe she listens to the rocker Marilyn Manson or the rapper Eminem, ok? You can bust on her, you can frame her listening to that music as being shady or untrustworthy, ok? Now it doesn't have to Marilyn Manson it doesn't have to be Eminem, it can be any sort of music she listens to. You can decide, you can bring it in to reality that, she's a bit shady or untrustworthy because of the type of music she listens to. Another great one is if you're talking to a woman and she happens to contradict herself or you catch her in a lie, ok? You can frame That as her being untrushworthy or a bit shady. If she's a little bit quiet, you can frame that as her being a bit shady. You can say something to her like, "You know, you're a little quiet. You're not like a cop or a narc or something?" If she tries a little bit too hard to, qualify herself as being desired by other males or she tries a little too hard to prove to you that she's rich or successful, you can frame it as her, being a bit shady. You can say something like, "You know, you're shady, a rich man doesn't have to tell others he's rich." Now all of these are great because they set the metaframe that you are a prize, the woman is trying to win over.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Framing her actions or behaviors as meaning, She's uncool, she's a total dork, she's a total goofball, she's just a complete geek and, most male/female interactions, the girl is the cool one and the guy is the dork, ok? The woman becomes the Judge and gets to decide, what's cool and what's not cool. Women are always busting on Guys for not being cool, for being dorks, for being goofballs. Now I'm a total proponent of you acting like a goofball or, you acting dorky, but you gotta know how to make dorky cool. But what I'm against is you allowing a frame to be set that, the woman is the cool one and you're the dorky guy, because when you Do this, it implicates the metaframe that she is the prize you're trying to win over, and as you know, women Feel no attraction toward men who aren't the prize. So you're always better off letting a woman know, that you're the cool one and she's the dorky girl. If maybe a woman pronounces a word wrong, let her know she's a dork and you're the cool one. Bust on her for this, ok? Let her know she's a complete dork. If a woman makes some sort of spastic expression, you need to bust on her for it, maybe say to her, "Oh my God, I cannot believe you made that expression. You know, if I'm gonna take you around my cool friends, you're gonna need to get botox, so you don't creep em out with that bizarre, spastic expression of yours." If, I don't know, maybe a woman, snorts like a pig (snonk snonk) or maybe she, laughs like a horse (hunt hunet) you need to bust on her for it, maybe say to her, "OK there Mr. Ed, most of the restaurants I like to dine at don't allow horses, so I don't think this relationship is gonna work out." If a woman unjustifably gets upset at you, maybe say to her, "Do you have a red nose? Do you have a costume? to go along with that silly act of yours?" Now All of these things are great, because they set the frame that you're the cool guy and she's the dorky girl, and that implies the metaframe that you are the prize, she's trying to win over ok?, that is setting the groundwork for a woman wanting and reaching and chasing for more of you.

Framing her actions or behaviors as meaning she's rude or insensitive or that she lacks class. This is great. Most guys are really, scared to call most women on unacceptable behavior. Now I'm not saying that you should be moralistic with a woman, what I'm saying is that, you need to call women on unacceptable behavior. Oftentimes, women will act unacceptable and guys will only tolerate it because they wanta get into a woman's pants. If one of their friends acted that way, they'd stop being friends with that person, ok? Women know this, they know when you're accomodating them and, this communicates to a woman that you are a man who is not the prize, and as you know if you're not the prize, this is suicide to Any attraction that you could have generated with her. A few months ago I was out with a buddy of mine, we're at some bar, it was a total dive and, we met this girl there and, she was acting quiet obnoxious. I guess she had ordered a drink and the bartendress had messed up her drink and she said to the bartender, "Do you speak English? What's wrong with you?" I thought it was, unacceptable behavior. I really don't tolerate that behavior and I said to her, "You know, you're a real jerk for saying that. I don't tolerate that sort of behavior, I don't think I want to talk to you anymore." And she proceeded to tell my friend that she felt that I was an ******* and I hurt her feelings and my friend tried to get me to apologize, and I thought to myself, "ABsoLutely Not" of course, I'm not gonna apologize. This woman was a jerk. Well, as the night progressed, who do you think she was most interested in? Me, of course, because I let her know, that I have standards and expectations, that I am a prize, she has to win over.

You can say to a woman, "You know, you're a real jerk for doing that" or "You're a real jerk for saying that, I don't think I wanta talk to you anymore." Another great one is, reality check, "That Act of yours actually won't work outside the trailer-park" or you could say, "Were you raised in a double-wide, because that Act of yours, won't work on me" or another great one is, "Does that attitude come with you? or do you have to pay extra" or you could say (this is a great one, ok this might get you into trouble, but this can be very powerful) "Are you a ***** to everyone? or Only people that are cooler than you." Now All of these are great, because they frame a woman's behaviors as being rude, insensitive or classless ok? And oftentimes women's behaviors Do need to be framed as this, ok? And this of course implicates the metaframe that You are a prize, She is trying to win over.

Framing her actions or behaviors as her being a pervert or sleezeball or, as her not being so subtle about making a sexual pass at you, or as her trying to get her, dirty little paws inside your pants. Women are Masters at framing guys' behaviors and actions as, them being perverts and sleezeballs. Even when a guy thinks he's doing his good deed for the year, and going up to a fat woman striking up a conversation with her because he feels sorry for her, it's quite probable the fat woman is going to frame his nice deed as, him being a sleezeball or a pervert or as Him wanting to get into her pants, even when the poor bastard couldn't get it up in a billion years for her. So what I suggest you do, it's really powerful to reverse this on women, to accuse women and to frame women's behaviors and actions as them being perverts and sleezeballs. So for example, maybe you're talking to a woman, you're getting along with her, everything is going great, and she inadvertently bumps into or she innocuously touches your arm, look at her in kind of an offended tone, like she's Really crossed the line and say something like, "You know, I'm not just a sausage with feet. You can touch, but it's gonna cost you." Or here's a great one (I actually discovered this years ago) whenever I talked to women who had really nice racks, during the conversation as their conversation would progress, at a certain point, my eyes would start to meander downward, until I had perfect eye-contact with their nipples, and inevitably women would say to me, "Um, my eyes are not down here, they're up here" so I found a great, powerful way to reverse this on women (and you don't need to get breast implants to make this work). At a certain point during your interaction with a woman (if you have good rapport with her), look away (ok if you're in rapport with her, she'll look away too), then look down at the ground at your feet (she'll follow, she'll look down towards the ground too), and in an offended tone pointing to your crotch say, "Um, my eyes are not down here, they're up here. I'd appreciate it if you just, didn't stare at my crotch like I'm some sort of, sex object." Ok now all these examples are powerful because what they're doing is they're setting frames that the Woman is a pervert, that she's a sleezeball, and this sets the metaframe that, you are a prize she's trying to win over.

Another great frame to set is, putting a woman on the point-system. So for example if I'm at a bar and, I meet a woman and her name is Michelle, I'll say to her, "Michelle, I know three other Michelles. I'm gonna call you Michelle 4" and she'll probably say, "No, I wanta be Michelle 1, I'm the best" and I'll retort with, "You know, at least you're fiesty, I'm gonna make you Michelle 3." Now throughout the night if she acts, needy and whiney and, she plain gets on my nerves, I'll demote her back down to the #4 slot and, call her Michelle 4 but, if she does everything I want her to do, then I'll promote her, probably to Michelle 2, never Michelle 1 (you know I don't wanta give her That much). Another great thing to do is, let's say you're out with a woman, maybe get her all excited about taking a fictitious vacation with you (now you've gotta communicate to her that it's fictitious through making it just outlandish and ridiculous and extravagant, maybe tell you're gonna take her to the Bahamas where you're gonna work as carnies, get her really excited about it, but all the while she knows that it's fictitious). And then say to her, "You know, you're a really cool girl, and that earns you 3 points, but you're gonna need to earn 15 points before I consider taking you on the trip" and throughout the night you'll make her do various things to, earn the 15 points so, she can come on the trip you're not gonna take her on. Another fun thing to do is, at a certain if you're out with a woman, take her hand and say to her, "You know you're a really cool girl and that earns you 3 points, but you're gonna need to earn 15 points to hold hands" and then push her hand away. Now all of these are, priceless because they set the metaframe, that you are the prize, the woman is trying to win over.
 

ItsOnNow

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
534
Reaction score
2
Location
a house
I don't hate myself,I am not happy with myself in some ways,and make sure not to show it. The prize thing makes sense to me,yet I cannot make it work. I realize one of my problems has been lazyness,and not putting in enough effort,plus alot of time gone bye feeling like I haven't done anything.
 

MrNotebook

Don Juan
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
49
Reaction score
2
Good thread...makes me understand where nervousness comes from when talking to an attractive woman...it comes from prizing her more than myself and caring what she thinks of me. WooHoo!! - no more putting women on a pedestal.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
MrNotebook said:
Good thread...makes me understand where nervousness comes from when talking to an attractive woman...it comes from prizing her more than myself and caring what she thinks of me. WooHoo!! - no more putting women on a pedestal.
Here is Swinggcat http://puapics.white.prohosting.com/swinggcat.html known for pulling women into bathroom stalls.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
Meeting and Approaching

I was at the farmer's market and there was some guy who was handing out flyers for something and this Really attractive woman walked by. And he gave her a flyer and then she kept walking and then he said, "Hey, come back here, you're really pretty, What would it take for a guy like me to get a girl like you as a girlfriend? Hey, can we go out sometime? Can I have your number?" And the girl kind of blushed and she kept walking. And then I kind of walked past the guy and he looked at me and then he says, "Women are ****in *****es."

And unfortunately, this is the reality of a Lot of guys. Either guys are too scared to approach a woman, they think that a woman's gonna steamroll them even before ever approaching her, or you got the other guy that spots an attractive woman, gets up the gall or the courage to approach her, goes up to her and within the first few seconds of conversation, she Pounds the poor bastard to jelly, and he goes bellyup and he walks away wearing an existential funk ten times the size of his deflated ego.

Ok, let's talk about approaching and meeting women. Before you even approach a woman, you need to put yourself in the Right frame of mind. Well what I suggest you do is Rehearse the first step which is assuming you're going to get the outcome you want with a woman, before ever approaching her. Ok? If you need to rehearse it in your mind, if you need to visualize it in your mind, getting the outcome you want, do that, it's really important. The next thing you need to do is you need to Relax. You need to slow down your breathing, see if you can, slow down your heartrate and don't take your outcome so seriously. The first, I don't know, four or five women that you talk to, those are just warmup rounds. Those are just to get the mental lubrication moving through your brain. After that, that's when the fun Really begins.

When you do approach, make sure you don't talk too fast. If you talk too fast, you risk her either, not understanding you which is not a good thing, or her thinking that you're nervous. So what you want to do is you really want to take your time and enjoy yourself. Don't rush through it. Eminate the attitude that, you could care less if she reacts to you, but you're having the best time in the world.

You always want to approach a woman with your energy level a little bit higher than her energy level. If it's too low, you're gonna be a big stale fart to the mood she's already in. If it's too high, you're gonna startle her. So the idea when approaching a woman is to always come in with your energy level just a little bit higher than hers. Later on, you can bring your energy level way up or sometimes way down.

Also, always Smile when approaching a woman. I don't know quite why this works, but women respond Very strongly to this. This is gonna make a Huge difference. And I know there's some guys that claim it's better Not to smile when approaching women. I've tested both and I find that Smiling makes a huge difference. Now, it doesn't matter if it's a smug smile, a confident smile, a snobby smile or a friendly smile. The very act of smiling is gonna make a Huge difference. Now, the One smile that will, put your erection on life support, you'll get the worst reactions from women you could possibly imagine is what I call the 'creepy' smile. This is when you're smiling because you're scared of the woman or you're nervous, so if you have a creepy smile, get rid of it and replace it with one of those other types of smiles, maybe the confident smile. And if then you're Really good, then you can try out one of the smug or the snobby smile.

Something else you can do that's really powerful is to Use the False time limit. One night, I was out with a friend of mine who's a Tremendous pickup artist, and he was going up to group after group of women saying something like, "Hey girls, I wanta get a quick, 30-second female opinion on something and then seriously I have to run, and get back to my friends." Now what was amazing is just about every woman he approached reacted to him in a positive way, and I think part of the reason was because is they thought to themselves, "You know, even if I don't want to talk to this guy, it's Only 30 seconds of my life." Now there's another part to why the false time limit is so powerful. After they talked to him for 30 seconds, he kept saying, "Seriously, I can only stay one more minute, and then I have to run" and the women would be like, "No no, stay with us all night" and he'd be like, "No, seriously, I have to go." And he'd play this little game Alll the way up until the point that he was closing the deal. So start using false time limits. It will make a Huge difference in your success rate at approaching women.

Should one approach a woman right away? or wait and think of something witty to say to her? It really depends on the context. If you're in a bookstore you have the luxury of maybe studying a woman for a little bit, seeing what she's reading then maybe commenting on it, or saying something witty about it, and I've done this, this works great. But if you're in a bar, or, a nightclub, you don't have this luxury. You have to approach the woman Right away. If you sit there and wait, it's gonna become mentally more difficult for you to do the approach. And also, the woman's gonna see you hesitating, and as a result, she's gonna feel no attraction to you. Also if you don't approach right away, there's a good chance another guy is gonna go approach her, and then you'll have lost your chance altogether.

Now when I say, "approach right away," what this means is that you spend one second rehearsing or assuming your outcome in advance, that she's gonna feel massive attraction towards you. Ok, this should Not take more than five or six seconds. After that, you go straight up to her. No hesitating. You go, head long into the interaction and you find out what happens.

Now you might be thinking, if you don't sit there and study her before approaching her, how do you think of something on the spot to say to her. Well you don't. You say something that's canned or rehearsed. Now, you might be scared, while if you say something that's rehearsed, isn't she gonna know that you've maybe used it on a hundred girls? Nope. As far as she knows, this is the First time you've ever used this line.

A lot of guys object to canned lines because they think it's important to Be spontaneous and be in the moment and I couldn't agree with these guys more. And that's the beauty of the canned line. With the canned line, as soon as you spot an attractive woman, you don't have to think about what to say, you just go right up to her, you go into the canned line, it keeps your mouth moving, you're already interacting with her, and since it's something that's rehearsed, it's something that's memorized, your Brain is completely freed up to think of something witty and spontaneous.

What to do if the girl you're attracted to is with her friends. What the average guy will do, isss he'll go up the girl that he's attracted to and Hope to God that her friends are nice to him. Big mistake. A much more effective thing to do is to approach the whole group, approach her and her friends, the whole group, and get their advice or opinion on some drama ladden issue.
 

Poonani Maker

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
4,421
Reaction score
927
A good opener sucks a woman into Your reality. In recent years, a very popular approach guys use to meet women is getting a woman's opinion on something. And this isn't a bad approach. The problem is that it usually reaps a 'yes' or 'no' answer and after the woman answers the question, she walks away from the guy. It does Nothing, to suck the woman, into the guy's reality.

Women, as you already know, are suckers for emotional rollercoasters. Even if they're only experiencing the drama vicariously. Now one of the best ways to suck a woman into your reality using a conversational opener is to get their advice on some drama-charged scenario, and then Suck them into that drama.

Let's say you spot two, really attractive women. Walk up to them and say, "Hey guys, I want a quick, 30 second, female opinion on something, but you have to make it quick, because I have to get back to my friends." Now notice how I used the false time limit here, but I used it in a specific way. Instead of implying that they'll only have to tolerate me for 30 seconds, I give it a little extra umph by communicating that I'll only have to tolerate "them" for 30 seconds. Then I'll say, "My friend suspected that her roomate was having an affair with her boyfriend, so she went through her roomate's stuff, she Read her roomate's diary, and lo and behold, it confirmed All of her greatest fears. So the question is: should she confront her roomate or not and why?" Now the Why? is really important, because if you just said, "Should she confront her roomate or not?" one of the girls might say, "No" and then walk away, but when you say, "Why?" they have to explain their answer and that Locks them into the conversation with you.

Let's say one of the girls responds by saying, "She shouldn't say anything, that would be bAD." Well you could say, "But if she doesn't say anything, that would mean that she doesn't have a backbone, that she's a pushover. Wait, you're not a pushover?" Or maybe one of the girls will respond by saying, "She needs to confront that *****, she shouldn't let people push her around." Well you could say something like, "Yeah but, if she confronts her then her roomate will know that she's a snoop, and that will make her no better than her roomate. Wait, you're not a snoop, are you? You seem cool, but I'm not so sure about you anymore." Or maybe one of the girls says, "You know what, she needs to move out, that's just ridiculous, she needs to move out." You could say something like, "Yeah but the problem is, her name is on the lease and it's not up for another five months. You know seem to really care for her, maybe you should, foot half the bill."

Now, all of these are great because what they're doing is they're Sucking the woman into the drama. So instead of just getting the woman's Advice on something and the woman walking away, she becomes an "Active," guilty participant in the drama.

You might be tempted to go out and Try this conversational opener verbatum, to memorize it word-for-word and let me say a few words about this. I think it's very difficult to memorize another person's material. It's much easier to memorize something you came up with. And also if it's something you came up with, even if it was inspired by a magazine or a movie you saw, it's gonna be authentic to you. It's gonna be more congruent with your own personality. So I urge you to come up with your own conversational openers.

Peruse women and teen magazines. If you look at the mailbag inside the magazine or the advice column, there's tons and tons of drama-laden scenarios and you can use Alll of these as conversational openers.

Now the idea is to make is drama-laden and pity. Get your point across or all of your points across in as few words as possible, ok? That doesn't mean that you only want to say a couple of words to the woman. You can talk for hours if you like, but make sure that the way you talk is not long-winded, ok? All of your points need to be made very clearly and very concisely.

Let's say you spot two attractive women. Go up to them and say, "Hey guys, I want to get a quick, 30 second, female opinion on something, but I can only stay a minute so you need to make it quick so I can get back to my friends. A friend of mine just got, a baby boy pug dog and a baby girl weiner dog and she wants to name it after an 80s or 90s pop duet, and whoever comes up with the best name in my neighborhood, get's a thousand dollars, so if you give me a good name, I'll give you 50 of the thousand." Now at this point a lot of girls will say, "No no, I want more than 50 dollars, that's not fair" and I'll usually say, "You know what, you're being greedy, you're only getting 25 dollars now." And then I'll say, "What do think of Sonny and Cher? because Sonny kind of looks like a pug and Cher looks like a weiner dog." And they'll be like, "Yeah, yeah" and you'll be like, "You know what, that's the 70s, plus Sonny is 6 feet under. I need something from the 80s or the 90s." And you know they'll rack their brains, maybe they'll give me a couple of suggestions which, of course, I'll disagree with and say that their lame. And then I'll say, "What do you think of Ziegfried and Roy? No, that won't work, because that's like a weiner and a weiner. How about Carmen Electra and Prince?" and the girls will be like, "Yeah, that's great I love it" and you could be like, "you know what, that won't work either because Prince is way too much of a Chiwahwah."

Let me give you some quick, guidelines to making this sort of opener work. And this will help you whether you're, tryin to meet women on the street or in a nightclub or in a bar or a restaurant or wherever. First thing you need to do is you need to say to a woman and you need to say it Loud enough so she can hear you, and you need to be close enough To her so that she can hear you, and you need to say, "Hey,..." Now, don't say anything else and don't move closer to her, until she responds to it, until She gets eye-contact with you. At that point, you can take a step closer to her and go into your "conversational opener."

Another class of openers I want introduce you to, is something where you don't actually get a woman's opinion on something. Instead what you do is you cause a bunch of drama and comotion, right there, in the moment. So one way to do this is let's say that you're at a bar or a nightclub. Stand in a Really crowded area and stick out your elbow. Inevitably what's gonna happen is hot women, attractive women, are gonna bump into to you. And then what you say in a Big drama-laden voice, you say, "Ouw, you hurt me.." and inevitably what will happen is women will say, "Oh, I'm sorry" and they'll Reach over and touch you. This is like a female reflex. And say to them, "You can touch me, but only if you tell me a joke or a story." So they'll tell you a joke or a story, and then they'll ask You to tell them a story. So tell them a story, but make sure your story is funnier and more intriguing than their story. I've done this hundreds of times, and what happens is, is the woman doesn't wanta leave because she thinks I'm the coolest guy in the world, I've Sucked her into my reality.

Now another way to do this is, at a lot of bars they have smoking patios. Go out to the smoking patio, you know, with your buddy maybe have a good time, and what will probably happen, at least this happens to me is a woman will come up and ask us for a cigarette, and I'll say, "Only if you have a joke or a story." So they'll tell me a joke or a story and I'll bust their balls on how their joke or story isn't funny, and they'll kind of Challenge me and ask me to tell them a story, and my story, of course, is funnier and more intriguing. And then they'll maybe ask me for the cigarette and I'll say, "I never said I had a cigarette" but the girls don't want to leave because I'm the coolest guy in the place. They're like a little puppy dog standing around me. I've sucked them into my reality.
 

Ricky

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 9, 2002
Messages
3,914
Reaction score
702
Age
50
Swinggcat is pretty dead on the money in many ways.

He kind of is a more frat boys David D. He explains it in a less speech like manner.
 
Top