Cluster B and "normal" people.

godofanxiety · Mar 3, 2008

I've noticed that some posters (KontrollerX comes to mind) are quick to put the label of Cluster B Personality Disorder on a woman someone is complaining about. Do you think it's maybe a bit harsh and over diagnosing? Is every drama queen borderline, AW a histrionic or spoiled ***** a narcissist? I was reading a lot about about cluster B (especially antisocial PD), and, let me tell you, it's very stomach turning when you find some of your GF's traits on that list. OK, I found some of my own, too, didn't feel very pleasant.

But, isn't it a rule in the medical community that a person that's being diagnosed for some of these disorders has to have the majority of the items from the list checked. (I don't have the list on me right now, I'll try to find it.) Because we all behave like selfish *******s sometimes, we manipulate people's feelings to save our ass, some cheat etc. The point is, I got an impression that everybody who isn't a saint, can be pigeon holed into a cluster B category. Probably not true, so can anybody with more experience with this explain a bit. I think some of you guys even work as counselors.

betterthandead · Mar 3, 2008

godofanxiety · Mar 3, 2008

Look at my post history and my join date if you must. What's the point of your response?

Never mind him, it was a serious question, I'm not attempting to troll, and I respect KontrollerX so this isn't any form of attack on him. Disclaimer.

MikeYikes122 · Mar 3, 2008

I don't know man. A lot of conclusions are jumped to on here - some fair, some not. But with the labels of BPDs, I don't think guys go overboard.

Granted, there might be a few exceptions, but the majority of dudes who come to this board looking for help are the types who are willing to put up with a woman who has some sort of personality disorder. It's certainly not a stretch to make that assumption about a chick who is even showing minor hints of that kind of behavior to a guy who is on SoSuave flipping out.

MikeYikes122 · Mar 3, 2008

betterthandead said:
you're one of those AW/histrionic/cluster b type of people too considering you did 25 posts within 3 days of creating your account.

Someone forgot what year it was

You're lucky you weren't writing a check.

KontrollerX · Mar 3, 2008

Look no one can officially diagnose anyone over an anonymous online forum.

I know that.

One poster on here in the past named Love Sorrow took issue with me bringing this stuff up when a poster would post about problems with their relationship and list all of the signs and all of the crazy making tactics a Histrionic or a Borderline uses ie a Cluster B.

I took what this guy said to heart for a while and thought well maybe I am bringing this up too much and guys aren't actually involved with these types of people and so kept my mouth shut but then I saw such posters come back time and time again when the clueless (through no fault of their own forum posters) would give them advice that would not help their situation and the clued in posters ie jophil, pimp cicle and others would pick up the slack that was left off when I stopped talking about this and so helped members involved with these people for a time figure out what they were dealing with.

Jophil in particular did a lot of helping posters when I was keeping silent about all of this and eventually I said to myself screw it.

A high number of guys here are clearly getting involved with people that exhibit the signs of these personality disordered people and I arguably have more knowledge on them than any person who posts on this forum due to all the research that I've done so I've decided criticism be damned I'm going to post my opinion on the information given me and if a ton of signs are mentioned by the poster making the topic I'm going to suggest that this is what his girl might have or at the very least he do a forum search and read up on it to rule it out for himself which puts the power entirely in his hands to decide what he's dealing with or not.

Again I don't flippantly suggest some guy's girl might have one of these things he has to post a ton of signs or common signs for me to see and generally I wait for another poster like reset or jophil to suggest it before I'll even chime in these days.

I do this to be helpful not to hurt anyone's feelings.

Tons of guys that come here are screwed up, want to make a change, are involved in or attracted to this type and don't know it.

They need to be aware of what they are dealing with so they don't seek out their own self destruction in the future in new girls with these conditions when one of their relationships with one of these people ends.

There have even been guys here who've become true DJ's such as pimp cicle who was totally blindsided and fell for a Borderline because there was no one like myself or jophil around to clue him in of what she was and that he should get away from her so he got damaged for a while emotionally by the BPD and found out for himself all of what she was about and posted his horror stories to the forum.

In closing I and others wouldn't bring up Cluster B so much if so many of the posters here would stop getting involved with and damaged by them.

Its seriously like a Sosuave epidemic.

Every day another poster posts a topic about his crazymaking relationship with his BPD sweety that really loves him but loves the football team too while he's not looking and wants to know how he can turn this ho into a housewife because of course "she's different than other girls, she's the one".

mzilla2 · Mar 3, 2008

I'm with KontrollerX.

What I used to think was simply AW or flaky behaviour in women, I am now begiining to think is more along the lines of personality disorders... I hit wikipedia with the symptoms and VOILA a disorder that fits them! LOL

I wonder if there's not something to it though, given that, at my age, what's left on the market is the undesirables... Like a used car, not many people let the good reliable ones go, what ends up on the market is mostly the lemons!

Quiksilver · Mar 3, 2008

Most disorders are stupid and are just identifying behaviors closer to the edge of the bell curve of the population.

Don't worry if you aren't an average john doe, remember that most of the people who are the focal point of society are usually different in some way and if they went to a clinic they'd likely be labelled with a host of 'disorders'. Most of the average people who are 'normal' are mediocre people living mediocre lives with mediocre excitement.

Live how you want to live and piss on all the haters graves.

Road Demon · Mar 3, 2008

KontrollerX said:
Look no one can officially diagnose anyone over an anonymous online forum.

I know that.

One poster on here in the past named Love Sorrow took issue with me bringing this stuff up when a poster would post about problems with their relationship and list all of the signs and all of the crazy making tactics a Histrionic or a Borderline uses ie a Cluster B.

I think Love Sorrow did a huge disserve to the community by protesting strongly. I don't know Love Sorrows background, but it is important to provide alternative explainations to their strange behaviors that are beyond normal relationship dynamics (ie normal relationship problems or dysfunction).

People also need to be aware that their are maladaptive social behaviors, that when when clustered together make certain individuals very difficult to deal with (ie personality disorders , esp. when these people with personality disorders are under periods of stress. I'm not trying to label individuals, but an awareness needs to be made.

I took what this guy said to heart for a while and thought well maybe I am bringing this up too much and guys aren't actually involved with these types of people and so kept my mouth shut but then I saw such posters come back time and time again when the clueless (through no fault of their own forum posters) would give them advice that would not help their situation and the clued in posters ie jophil, pimp cicle and others would pick up the slack that was left off when I stopped talking about this and so helped members involved with these people for a time figure out what they were dealing with.

Dealing with these individuals (cluster B, specifically BPD) are like bringing a lamb to slaughter. Few will understand the sort of emotional damage these individuals (or emotional vampires) can to do to otherwise very confident and successful individuals. Their behaviors tend to defy and deny logic.

Jophil in particular did a lot of helping posters when I was keeping silent about all of this and eventually I said to myself screw it.

Good. Kontroller X, I'm glad you glad you got back into the fray, sharing YOUR experiences.

A high number of guys here are clearly getting involved with people that exhibit the signs of these personality disordered people and I arguably have more knowledge on them than any person who posts on this forum due to all the research that I've done so I've decided criticism be damned I'm going to post my opinion on the information given me and if a ton of signs are mentioned by the poster making the topic I'm going to suggest that this is what his girl might have or at the very least he do a forum search and read up on it to rule it out for himself which puts the power entirely in his hands to decide what he's dealing with or not.

These personality disordered individuals are so seductive, because they often mirror the 'normal partner' but in reality they do these because they cluster Bs often down have their 'own sense of self.'

Again I don't flippantly suggest some guy's girl might have one of these things he has to post a ton of signs or common signs for me to see and generally I wait for another poster like reset or jophil to suggest it before I'll even chime in these days.

I do this to be helpful not to hurt anyone's feelings.

Please Chim in the future! Ignore Love Sorrows Comments.

Tons of guys that come here are screwed up, want to make a change, are involved in or attracted to this type and don't know it.

These females are Emotional Vampires. Guys that are already have drained, are worse off if they are unaware of the insidious damage that ate done by these cluster Bs
They need to be aware of what they are dealing with so they don't seek out their own self destruction in the future in new girls with these conditions when one of their relationships with one of these people ends.

Agree 110%

There have even been guys here who've become true DJ's such as pimp cicle who was totally blindsided and fell for a Borderline because there was no one like myself or jophil around to clue him in of what she was and that he should get away from her so he got damaged for a while emotionally by the BPD and found out for himself all of what she was about and posted his horror stories to the forum.

In closing I and others wouldn't bring up Cluster B so much if so many of the posters here would stop getting involved with and damaged by them.

Its seriously like a Sosuave epidemic.

Every day another poster posts a topic about his crazymaking relationship with his BPD sweety that really loves him but loves the football team too while he's not looking and wants to know how he can turn this ho into a housewife because of course "she's different than other girls, she's the one".

Thank you Kontroller X, as you in fact opened up MY eyes several years ago to female I had a 1.5year relationship with that had 8 out 9 symptoms of BPD. I was 29 and trying to finish up a Science PhD at the time; I had several successful LTRs prior to her. Dating a BPD for anything longer than a few weeks would be something that I would not wish on my worst enemy.

My comments were in Bold.

Cheers,
RD

jophil28 · Mar 3, 2008

Quiksilver said:
Most disorders are stupid and are just identifying behaviors closer to the edge of the bell curve of the population.

Don't worry if you aren't an average john doe, remember that most of the people who are the focal point of society are usually different in some way and if they went to a clinic they'd likely be labelled with a host of 'disorders'. Most of the average people who are 'normal' are mediocre people living mediocre lives with mediocre excitement.

Live how you want to live and piss on all the haters graves.

I was going to reply to your post but then I saw your age.

To the OP - "godofanxiety".

A formal medical "diagnosis" is made after a thorough investigation and assessment . The professional has access to the person over several sessions.
WE do not have that luxury here on SS .. WE can only give our "lay" opinion based on what we know about Cluster B disorders together with the information in the post from the guy who presents here all cut and bleeding after his attempts to have a relationship with his "soulmate" have reduced his brain to vegetable soup.
Cluster B disorders are grouped in the way that they are because they are the ABUSIVE disorders. People with BPD, NPD and Sociopathic PD are the ABUSERS in out society and the majority of BPDs are women. Ergo, women who have Cluster BPDs are abusers in general and of men in relationships . Read this again - WOMEN BPDS are perpetrators of abuse, usually emotional or psychological abuse. Men are commonly their victims .
My being a victim was NOT a fact that I accepted readily - however the evidence was overwhelming and undeniable. I had access to professional assistance at arriving at this awareness.
IT was only after the painful relationship that I had with my BPD who initially was the "sweetest girl in all creation" that I learned how damaged and damaging these women are.
WE men need to be aware that they are out there on the singles scene and they are vampires in their behavior. THese women are evil in their thinking and their behavior and I hope that none of you ever has to suffer the torment of being close to one.

The clues to BPD behavior usually only are revealed when the relationship has decayed into the murk and the muck. She has taken him on that wild rollercoaster for a long time and she has finally pushed him off, or he has limped away for his very survival.
Some men end up in therapist offices for years OR they post here and have immediate access to support and an explanation of what has just happened to them.
Secondly, PDs rarely exist in a "pure" form which means that the perpetrator usually has several disorders ( co-morbidity). THis is what makes it difficult for professionals and even harder for us to unravel. Her behavior switches back and forth, tumbles and swirles according to which demon is predominant on any one day.

I am an engineering scientist - my science requires me to label and categorize. I am comfortable with that and I acknowledge its validity and its benefits .
There are others from the "caring professions" or the "humanities" who believe that doing so(labeling) people " stigmatises" them. . THis of couse is cowardly PC nonsense.
"Value free" science is bad science because it works silently in unintentional collusion with the forces of evil, and Cluster Bs are evil creatures..
Read Scott Peck, "People of the Lie".
Read Richard Skerritt, "Tears and Healing " and "Meaning from Madness".

Abusers need to be dragged into the sunlight and named as such. Monsters live in the dark.

KontrollerX has extensive background experience from his involvement with web based forums on this subject. HE knows Cluster B PDs and he understands the intricacies of PDs devious behavior and the damage that BPD women cause.
Several of us on this board have been in relationships with abusive women and we have survived and thrived our way out of the experience thanks to the advice and bluntness from some posters on this forum.

I, for one, will continue to call a spade a spade.

"There is nobody sadder and more tragic than a man who is pursuing a BPD women - and who only wants to love her."

reset · Mar 3, 2008

I think that the difference between drama queens and histrionic/bpd chicks, is a somewhat "normal" girl, after she's gotten the drama out of her system, has the potential to kind of be normal. She may be pissed off, and still acting like a bytch, but once much of it is out of her system she'll KIND OF be normal, sort of. IF that makes sense.

But when a BPD/Histrionic chick hates you, they just hate you. That's it. The hatred in their eyes does not diminish naturally over time, once you're "out" you may as well be Hitler because that's what you're going to be treated like. God forbid you still have contact with the chick after this point, because she'll make your life a living hell, on purpose, LONG after the "cut off" point where a semi-normal chick will kind of semi-get over it.

Eventually you realize "there is something not right with this girl, and it goes beyond drama. She's just not "right", I can't put my finger on it."

Deep Dish · Mar 3, 2008

Jophil28, brilliant reply.

My Name is Nobody · Mar 3, 2008

reset said:
But when a BPD/Histrionic chick hates you, they just hate you. That's it. The hatred in their eyes does not diminish naturally over time, once you're "out" you may as well be Hitler because that's what you're going to be treated like. God forbid you still have contact with the chick after this point, because she'll make your life a living hell, on purpose, LONG after the "cut off" point where a semi-normal chick will kind of semi-get over it.

Eventually you realize "there is something not right with this girl, and it goes beyond drama. She's just not "right", I can't put my finger on it."

Yeah, just imagine working with her

I was trying to tell you guys she was taking pleasure in seeing me suffer. I still believe it, and she seems to hate my guts with a passion.

reset · Mar 3, 2008

Dude, I DID work with "her". How the hell do you think I learned all this stuff? Lol. Mine was a stalker sociopath type. Did you ever have a schoolyard bully who made your life hell? Always anticipating their next move. Hoping they'll just leave you alone. It felt like that, except I thought I was in love with her at the same time.

It sucked. But it actually made me stronger. She started the whole thing for me.

Don't know if yours was BP or just ultra-drama. Either way, it's not fun. When you see "don't date at work" you'll see our experiences as the definition.

Not to say those work relationships can't turn into something positive, they can but your game has to be tight as fvck and you have to have an exit plan already in place and in motion if you intend to take it further.

My Name is Nobody · Mar 3, 2008

reset said:
Dude, I DID work with "her". How the hell do you think I learned all this stuff? Lol. Mine was a stalker sociopath type. Did you ever have a schoolyard bully who made your life hell? Always anticipating their next move. Hoping they'll just leave you alone. It felt like that, except I thought I was in love with her at the same time.

It sucked. But it actually made me stronger. She started the whole thing for me.

Don't know if yours was BP or just ultra-drama. Either way, it's not fun. When you see "don't date at work" you'll see our experiences as the definition.

Not to say those work relationships can't turn into something positive, they can but your game has to be tight as fvck and you have to have an exit plan already in place and in motion if you intend to take it further.

Does not caring constitute having "tight game"? If that's the case these girls are the players.

Because I'm not sure about having any game. All I know is in our cases it's the women who have no problem seeing us everyday and walking past us to see our reaction, with an evil smirk on her face like she knows exactly how she's getting to me.

The women aren't the one's quitting, or changing shifts.

It's us saps that are still here posting about these psychos months after the fact. You think they are giving us a second thought? Damn man what's wrong with this picture.

reset · Mar 3, 2008

They're giving you a second thought in the sense that they are obsessed with getting any sort of reaction from you. These chicks have zero self-esteem and as long as you don't give in, they can't let go. Their entire sense of self-worth (twisted of course) is based on proving to themselves that they indeed control you. The ones who are genuinely BPD must control you. You are their object, their property. They can do whatever they want, becasue you're not a real person to them. You're just a thing.

If being a bytch doesn't work and you really seem to NOT CARE what they are doing, they will switch and become sweet and nice. Then you lighten up, they get their reaction, they win, back to bytch hating hitler.

Mine eventually quit and split.

Of course I'm talking about relationships with mature, emotionally healthy people. That is tight game.

This is the mature man forum, and it has to be said, even though you may be a good person and caring and everything, these women compliment the men they take over. The men who are "victims", though not crazy, are weak emotionally. So it is a perfect fit. Two weak people finding each other.

I was not emotionally healthy. Even though she was my "enemy", and I hers, I was not strong inside. If I were, I would not have been caught up in her nightmare. I learned a hell of a lot about myself from it. Not always pleasant, the revelations you can have about your own self.

KontrollerX · Mar 4, 2008

"It's us saps that are still here posting about these psychos months after the fact. You think they are giving us a second thought? Damn man what's wrong with this picture."

Oh don't worry many of them get whats coming to them in life.

See Histrionics and Borderlines aren't only attracted to nice guys like us but also their fellow Cluster B's.

The far more dangerous ones at that such as the sociopath ie anti social personality disordered and the narcissists.

Both socios and narcissists tend more often than not to be males and they are far better at psychological warfare than the BPD's and HPD's.

They break the HPD's and BPD's down, use them for sex, pimp them for money and get them hooked on various drugs and make slaves out of them.

Pretty much the walking dead.

So many times the HPD's and BPD's do pay for what they've done to good caring people their entire lives when they run across an ASPD or NPD but at the same time they are suffering and paying for their wrongs they are also loving every minute of it because they believe the ASPD or NPD they are involved with is the embodiment of their fantasy and will take all of their pain away.

My Name is Nobody · Mar 4, 2008

KontrollerX said:
"It's us saps that are still here posting about these psychos months after the fact. You think they are giving us a second thought? Damn man what's wrong with this picture."

Oh don't worry many of them get whats coming to them in life.

See Histrionics and Borderlines aren't only attracted to nice guys like us but also their fellow Cluster B's.

The far more dangerous ones at that such as the sociopath ie anti social personality disordered and the narcissists.

Both socios and narcissists tend more often than not to be males and they are far better at psychological warfare than the BPD's and HPD's.

They break the HPD's and BPD's down, use them for sex, pimp them for money and get them hooked on various drugs and make slaves out of them.

Pretty much the walking dead.

So many times the HPD's and BPD's do pay for what they've done to good caring people their entire lives when they run across an ASPD or NPD but at the same time they are suffering and paying for their wrongs they are also loving every minute of it because they believe the ASPD or NPD they are involved with is the embodiment of their fantasy and will take all of their pain away.

I found out she was still using her ex hubby's last name in August of last year. We went out in October until all that stupid drama unfolded. Then we were "friends" until Jan. How long does it take for a women to get over a bad marriage and be "normal" again?

Can't believe I'm still rambling about this psycho.

betterthandead · Mar 4, 2008

****, i'm stupid. sorry godofanxiety.

MikeYikes122 said:
Someone forgot what year it was You're lucky you weren't writing a check.

jophil28 · Mar 4, 2008

My Name is Nobody said:
I found out she was still using her ex hubby's last name in August of last year.
How long does it take for a women to get over a bad marriage and be "normal" again?

Can't believe I'm still rambling about this psycho.

The "sweet china doll" BPD woman that I was involved with in 2006 was also still using her Ex husbands name - SIXTEEN years after they were divorced back in 1990 . She was still raging about him to me often, BUT then the next day, she would tell me how she lusted after him, was addicted to him and "missed the sex and the cocaine" . A day later she was referring to him as an "imbicile" who wrecked the life of luxury that she felt entitled to..

No prizes for guessing how she treated me towards the end.

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Cluster B and "normal" people.

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