How would you guys reply to this email I got today from a chic Ive been seeing for a little while. She's been kinda elusive for the past couple weeks: Sorry that I missed your call the other day...that was the eve of our Christmas party and I rushed out of here and left my cell phone on my desk...Yes it is totally crazy this time of year....my busiest time of the year is now til the end of January....
I like any of the things you mentioned, but You don't have to get me anything for Christmas. I hope that we can get together soon. Hope you have a safe trip south. Talk to you soon

I see four fatal get lost words there. Anybody else see them?

I'm not sure I see any fatal words there ...

sounds like she's busy.

1. you can accept what she says at face value and find someone who has more time to give you, then if she frees up some time, go from there.

2. you can sit around and worry and wonder if she's blowing you off and in 6 weeks when it sinks in she don't want you, then you can go and find someone who has time for you.

what harm can come from responding to her email ?

unfortunetly when will like a chick we analyze all her actions as if anything and everything she does is based around us ... but in reality it's not always about you....

start spinning more plates dude

Yea, I'm dealing with a "busy" woman myself. Actually, it's pretty much at a done deal unless she starts chasing ME.

You gotta weigh it out. If you have had sufficient TIME to attract her and you are getting the run around it might be time to consider moving on. That's kinda where I'm at.

A woman who is really attracted to you will go on three hours of sleep for a week to see you. I've had a couple like that.

But its all about figuring out if there's any potential. If you are at a ppoint where you can say to yourself "I gave it a shot and it ain't happening, you need to forget about her.

Dearhunter61 said:

How would you guys reply to this email I got today from a chic Ive been seeing for a little while. She's been kinda elusive for the past couple weeks: Sorry that I missed your call the other day...that was the eve of our Christmas party and I rushed out of here and left my cell phone on my desk...Yes it is totally crazy this time of year....my busiest time of the year is now til the end of January....
I like any of the things you mentioned, but You don't have to get me anything for Christmas. I hope that we can get together soon. Hope you have a safe trip south. Talk to you soon

I see four fatal get lost words there. Anybody else see them?

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no what i see is a low maintenance woman who is apologetic. seems like a catch.

most women wouldn't even acknowledge that they missed your call - much less be low maintenance during the holidays like she is being.

absolutely no red signs here if you ask me.

Dearhunter61 said:

I see four fatal get lost words there. Anybody else see them?

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I sure do!! I don't what the heck everybody else is thinking. It's very, very obviously over between you two.

I've never disagreed more strenuously with the other posters!! Just taking his whole post as literal truth, it's a thousand percent guaranteed to be over, without knowing any other details.

most women wouldn't even acknowledge that they missed your call - much less be low maintenance during the holidays like she is being.

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No, she acknowledged his call with an e-mail. Not a call back, not a freakin' text from the phone after she got it from her desk, an e-mail, and notice how deer hunter didn't call her back after that e-mail; he knows she's not going to answer.

Okay, I can understand dating some girl twice, her being lukewarm, her getting busy for the holidays, and you trying again after. But this guy was seeing her for at least 6 weeks, and now she says she'll be busy "up to christmas, during christmas, mighty busy up to new years, and boy, that entire event-free month of January is REALLY busy for no particular reason . . ."

Come ON! Take the hint.

Dearhunter61 said:

How would you guys reply to this email I got today from a chic Ive been seeing for a little while. She's been kinda elusive for the past couple weeks: Sorry that I missed your call the other day...that was the eve of our Christmas party and I rushed out of here and left my cell phone on my desk...Yes it is totally crazy this time of year....my busiest time of the year is now til the end of January....
I like any of the things you mentioned, but You don't have to get me anything for Christmas. I hope that we can get together soon. Hope you have a safe trip south. Talk to you soon

I see four fatal get lost words there. Anybody else see them?

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You're just fine, Dearhunter. Well, actually, since you thought this could possibly be a bad thing, you might want to introspect a bit and figure out why you're assuming the worst when it isn't warranted.

Think positive. Assume the best. You'll feel better and come across as confident too; a win-win.

..............

Phyzzle... there's still time to claim that you were being sarcastic. I'd do it!

azanon said:

Phyzzle... there's still time to claim that you were being sarcastic. I'd do it!

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Nah, I hope the guy gives us an honest update, because I plan to totally pwn you guys in the sport of internet prognostication.

I'm reading into the other things he wrote, not just the email, using my powers of deduction:

a chic Ive been seeing for a little while. She's been kinda elusive for the past couple weeks

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He didn't say "elusive since the third date", so he's been seeing this girl a good deal longer than 2 weeks. Probably months. That means, if the interest is actually there, they should be getting somewhat serious now. Furthermore, "elusive for a couple of weeks"? That alone is enough to assume that it's going down.

Sorry that I missed your call the other day...that was the eve of our Christmas party

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Why is she writing now to apologize for missing a call when she partied with him and talked to him after he called? Because the "our" doesn't refer to him. It was some other party he wasn't invited to that she suddenly does have time for. The 'don't have get me a present' thing doesn't mean anything. She would say that if she were low maintenance, or if she were trying to extract herself from him. The vague 'hope to see you soon' doesn't mean anything either.

I mean, have any of you guys ever personally been seeing a girl that got too busy to see you for the entire months of December and January, and then everything was fine?

On a different note, don't give someone a list of gifts, and ask what they want. Try surprising them with something.

The words are: "Talk to you soon." Too indefinite for my satisfaction. By the way, I had to email to request this response, then text her to let her know I had emailed. I don't think it's good news. Next, I think.

Theres no such thing as a busy woman - if she's interested she'll MAKE time.

Here's the draft of my reply........

S,
Thanks for the info. I remember you have an early January birthday too.
I'll keep pondering............hope your Dad is still improving.
Talk to you soon.
E


That about right?

This email is a perfect example of a girl in LIMBO.

This is what I mean by LIMBO. She started with initial MODERATE, maybe high intererst. Your lack of CONFIDENCE, brought her interest level lower. Now she is unsure of where she stands with you. She feels a little uncomfortable because you never guided her.

Call her up, make a date. On your date, escalate!

Well..........

I've been ba*&ing her good when we're together for about 5 months. Maybe that's all we both want.

Dearhunter61 said:

I've been ba*&ing her good when we're together for about 5 months. Maybe that's all we both want.

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5 Months, now the dynamics have changed. There is a clear and huge difference between 5 months and a couple of dates.

While dating you are courting her, till you hook her. Now HOOKING is different for everyone. I usually consider HOOKING after I sleep with the girl.

After I hook, I lay down my IRON FIST. Whether I am interested or not in the girl , I demand a certain kind of behavior and respect from them if they want to continue to communicate with me. I say" I am only interested in girls of high interest, if I sense for a minute you are losing interest, I will drop you and walk away."

THE ABILITY TO WALK AWAY COMMUNICATED MENTALLY, VERBALLY AND IN BODY LANGUAGE IS THE KEY TO A RESPECTFUL RAPPORT.

That being said, it looks like this wasnt communicated with her so she is not on a LEASH. She is free to do whatever she wants to do because as a result , there are no consequences. You didnt lay out the scenario, that a lack of interest level will essentially take this "SEX RELATIONSHiP" and throw it on the craps table. So she acts with no regards to the consequence , as you will always be around. Of course, she will act this way.

She pushed to SEE YOUR INTERNAL BOUNDARIES AND SAW THEY WERE VERY FLEXIBLE. Now she does whatever she wants.

Is it salvageable?

Well let me ask you this. Are you willing to lose her??

If you answered and mean YES, then this is what I would suggest. Meet with her. LAY YOUr IRON FIRST DOWN. Make your demands that need to be met in order for her to stick around. MEAN IT! If she does not meet it or want to meet it, WALK AWAY.

It doesnt matter , if she is for sex, friend, love or LTR. This is about your rules and respect. Demand RESPECT. Place yourself of HIGHER VALUE or WALK.

sorry about m y initial reply. i had food poisoning yesturday and wasn't paying much attention obviously, because i didnt notice that she replied with an email.

that does change things. email is the most impersonal form of communication (next to texting).

if her IL was high she would have called you up so that you would have heard in the tone of her voice that she was sincerely sorry and that her IL in you was still high.

email is perfect for covert communication because there are no non-verbal communication elements to pick up on (ie. tone of voice).

so im goign to reverse my assessment and say that something does smell fishy here. if i had to guess, it sounds like she is branch swinging. perhaps she has started to just see another guy, or has been flirtin with a guy and things are about to go to the next level.

because theres a pretty basic rule - women hate being single. so if she's not making the effort to keep this relationship alive, you have to ask yourself what she's got lined up if it falls apart.

and once again, because she replied on email, her low maintenance is actually lack of interest.

have there been no signs of lowering interest prior to this?

A couple of other incidents...........

But I'll spare you and me the embarrassing details. I know what to do now.
Should I just stop trying, or send that draft to her by email?
By the way, I've been widowed for 13 months, so I'm learning skills from you guys that I never really had.

Would be grateful for an answer about replying to her email. Wondering if it's worth a gentle final shot. Check the draft in an earlier post.

Thanks, Happy Guy............

The more I think about it she's telling me to save my time AND money. I'll do as you suggest. I think my propensity toward oneitis is because I got married when I was 22.
I was plate spinning when I met her, and thought I might like something regular. I'll start doing better from now on.

Dearhunter61 said:

But I'll spare you and me the embarrassing details. I know what to do now.
Should I just stop trying, or send that draft to her by email?
By the way, I've been widowed for 13 months, so I'm learning skills from you guys that I never really had.

Would be grateful for an answer about replying to her email. Wondering if it's worth a gentle final shot. Check the draft in an earlier post.

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my advice... and it took me many painful years to learn this one... is to never say anything.

you know that old saying 'if you have nothing good to say about someone, then don't say anything.' - there's more truth in that than i realized.

you must learn to make closure a one-sided act. this does two things. one, it allows you to move on without getting mind f*cked (a lot of women will try to mind f*ck you during the closure process). second, it leaves the window open for the whole frame to get flipped on its head nad for her to come crawling back to you (at which point you can take her or leave her, your choice).

the toughest thing to do with a woman you are in to is to let her go and move on. most guys can't do it. most guys either bend over backwards to keep her interested, or throw a tantrum and basically blow the relationship up (just in case it wasn't completely over they sure make sure it is).

the best thing to do is simply to quietly move on with your life. this is why you can never let any one woman becoming center of your universe - or if you do, you better make sure she has shown the characteristics of a mature, respectful and trust worthy woman.

joekerr31 said:

my advice... and it took me many painful years to learn this one... is to never say anything.

you know that old saying 'if you have nothing good to say about someone, then don't say anything.' - there's more truth in that than i realized.

you must learn to make closure a one-sided act. this does two things. one, it allows you to move on without getting mind f*cked (a lot of women will try to mind f*ck you during the closure process). second, it leaves the window open for the whole frame to get flipped on its head nad for her to come crawling back to you (at which point you can take her or leave her, your choice).

the toughest thing to do with a woman you are in to is to let her go and move on. most guys can't do it. most guys either bend over backwards to keep her interested, or throw a tantrum and basically blow the relationship up (just in case it wasn't completely over they sure make sure it is).

the best thing to do is simply to quietly move on with your life. this is why you can never let any one woman becoming center of your universe - or if you do, you better make sure she has shown the characteristics of a mature, respectful and trust worthy woman.

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This is SO true. It took me forever to learn and apply this.

A good example. I had this one girl---early 30s, single mom -- there was NO way I was going to have a real "relationship" with her, ever. And she knew it. We f*cked around for three months or so, and everything was cool. At one point, all of a sudden, she backs WAY up and gets distant. Doesn't answer my calls for a week. Then she calls me up and leaves a message about this DVD I left at her house, and wants to know where and when she can "return" it to me.

Years ago, I would have tried to make the the "return of the DVD" into a reconciliation. But I now know it was just a ruse on her part for attention, and to see if I would "bite." I didn't. The next day, I get home from work, and there on my doorstep is a cute little gift bag, with the DVD inside. I haven't called or acknowledged this.

So, now, two weeks later, I'm holding the cards. If I lose a current plate, I can call her up and get her back in rotation (if she wants to, or not, whatever, I don't care.) But the window is still "open" as joekerr described; I don't look needy, and she and I both are free to do whatever we want down the line.

We hurt both ourselves AND the chick when we do it wrong.


Joekerr's right.

aliasguy said:

A good example. I had this one girl---early 30s, single mom -- there was NO way I was going to have a real "relationship" with her, ever. And she knew it. We f*cked around for three months or so, and everything was cool. At one point, all of a sudden, she backs WAY up and gets distant. Doesn't answer my calls for a week. Then she calls me up and leaves a message about this DVD I left at her house, and wants to know where and when she can "return" it to me.

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Yea, the "I still have some of your stuff let me get it back to you" thing.

The first night the Lebanese chick stayed with me....she left in my t-shirt and boxers. Our mutual friend picked her up at the front of my building, her wearing my underwear. She was even going to go to breakfast in my skivvies!

Met up with them later that day and she mentioned something about having my clothes in her car, and that she was going to bring them back to me later. i told her "That's ok....I'll just take them now" and she insisted that she had to wash them first. She wore them for 30 minutes, and she has to wash them?

Did she ever bring them back? No. Why? Because women almost always create a bridge that cannot be burned on your end. They always hold on to something that gives them an excuse to initiate contact, should they be so inclined.

My ex g/f from two years ago who is engaged still has some of my books. I made ABSOLUTELY SURE that I returned EVERYTHING of hers. I don't play that game.

So, now, two weeks later, I'm holding the cards. If I lose a current plate, I can call her up and get her back in rotation (if she wants to, or not, whatever, I don't care.) But the window is still "open" as joekerr described; I don't look needy, and she and I both are free to do whatever we want down the line.

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I have a theory. Can't remember if i posted on it yet specifically, but my theory is that it is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to avoid doing things that DESTROY attraction, than it is to do things that CREATE attraction.

If you avoid burning bridges and simply move on with your life, you never know what might happen to you r advantage in the future.

This was a HUGE mistake on my end in the past. I would try to milk the last drops out of a relationship. If I had simply walked away with my DIGNITY intact, I would be free to explore options in the future with that particular woman, even if only to use her as social proof.

You can't win by getting your panties in a wad. You might be able to win if you simply walk away WITHOUT closure. Men want closure, women avoid it at all costs. Since I learned that there is no benefit to obtain closure, I now have many possibilities for the future that I never had in the past.'

This isn't to say that you need to be getting back with exes, but it never hurts to let her continue to stew over the fact that she hasn't completely destroyed your soul.

We hurt both ourselves AND the chick when we do it wrong.


Joekerr's right.[/QUOTE]

Man, why is this thread even allowed here? Would a guy go nutty because a bud of his gave him cryptic message or not responde to his email or phone call?