Alec Baldwin: Major AFC; Out of Control

[Chosen1]

I was looking at Hannity and Colmes and the lady there had a very good point. I've been talked to worst than that girl has in my life, by people who "love me". Sometimes you just get upset and spit things out. I've done we all probably done it. I just want to know. If any of you heard him doing that in public would you stop it or just walk by?

[Wyldfire]

I was looking at Hannity and Colmes and the lady there had a very good point. I've been talked to worst than that girl has in my life, by people who "love me". Sometimes you just get upset and spit things out. I've done we all probably done it. I just want to know. If any of you heard him doing that in public would you stop it or just walk by?

It's not just what he said that is the problem. Yes, all parents get upset and say things they regret to their kids when their kids do something bad...and the parent is mad at the child for the child's behavior. That's not what this was, though. If Baldwin was just made at the child he would not have mentioned his ex in the message. Also...the kid didn't pick up the telephone...and he had no way of knowing what the reason for that was. Perhaps she was in the shower, on the toilet, or maybe there was an emergency where she couldn't answer the phone. He got angry and lashed out because she did not pick up the phone. That is NOT something that would cause a normally rational parent to get angry. A normally rational parent would not lash out at the other parent if it was really the child they were angry with. As a parent, if I had a scheduled phone call set up with one of my children and they didn't answer I would be worried about them...were they okay, were they in a car accident, etc. I would not get upset with them unless I learned AFTERWARDS that they saw the call coming, could have answered it but didn't. Also, the punishment would have fit the crime...if they didn't pick up the cell phone I would take away the cell phone for a week...or something similar.

Yes, his daughter disrespected him if she just didn't pick up the phone and heard it...but with a father that is so disrespectful to call her stupid and a little pig in such a seething tone of voice he really can't expect her to be respectful of him. He's hypocritical to hold his child to a higher standard of behavior than he quite clearly holds himself to.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

... I've done we all probably done it. I just want to know.
Please don't say that the justification is that there seems to be an segment of people in the world lacking a certain level of judgement and self control.
...
If any of you heard him doing that in public would you stop it or just walk by?
This is a difficult one. I hope that he would have enough sense not to do this in public but lets say that he didn't. If it was just verbal, I may not intervene but I would definitely watch in case it escalated to physical violence. If it did, I would protect the girl.

[6-heads lewis]

Wyldfire,

Your son probably doesn't suffer from Oppositional Defiant Disorder, but rather a much more common yet undiagnosed disorder I call 'Im a snotty, spoiled brat with too much freedom who needs to get punched in the face' Disorder.

It seems like everyone has a disorder these days, it's become hip to tell people you have ADD or are bipolar. I wish I could diagnose these people with 'Shut the Fvck Up' Disorder.

[Wyldfire]

Please don't say that the justification is that there seems to be an segment of people in the world lacking a certain level of judgement and self control.

This is a difficult one. I hope that he would have enough sense not to do this in public but lets say that he didn't. If it was just verbal, I may not intervene but I would definitely watch in case it escalated to physical violence. If it did, I would protect the girl.

I would definitely say something if I saw someone acting this way...and have before. I heard this one skanky biotch call her 4 year old daughter a "fvcking cvnt". I shoved a dish of soft cat food sitting on her porch in her face and called the state on her.

I just heard another report on this on cable news...and the person the voice mail was leaked to kinda implied that it may have been Alec Baldwin's daughter who is behind the leak. The person said that the girl is happy that the story came out, as well. If that's the case...then this is likely normal behavior. Judges won't usually let a kid speak for themselves in visitation cases unless there is extenuating circumstances that require it. This could have been his daughter's way of telling the court she doesn't want to see or talk to her father and getting people to listen to her. It's really hard for kids when they are being hurt by a parent's behavior and the court won't listen and still forces them to visit and endure being hurt.

[Wyldfire]

Wyldfire,

Your son probably doesn't suffer from Oppositional Defiant Disorder, but rather a much more common yet undiagnosed disorder I call 'Im a snotty, spoiled brat with too much freedom who needs to get punched in the face' Disorder.

It seems like everyone has a disorder these days, it's become hip to tell people you have ADD or are bipolar. I wish I could diagnose these people with 'Shut the Fvck Up' Disorder.

You obviously have never known a kid with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. My son was given a psychological evaluation at 9 or 10 years old and was diagnosed by a child psychiatrist to have ODD by itself...a very rare diagnosis. Most kids who have it also have ADHD, anxiety or depression. My son has straight ODD. Oh...and there is no medication to treat the symptoms.

Kindly don't make light of ODD...it's a very serious and difficult disorder to deal with. I've worked VERY hard for many years and have been very devoted to helping my son learn to manage and cope with his ODD...and we've had a great deal of success. That being said...it is pretty much the second most difficult childhood disorder to deal with.

[Gangster Of Love]

You're assuming that the mother is actually doing what Baldwin is accusing her of doing. My ex husband accused me of the same thing and I wasn't doing any such thing. In fact, for years I was working hard to try to undo the damage he did to his relationship with his kids by telling them their father loved them and was just hurt and angry with me and that he really didn't mean what he said. Alec Baldwin sounded exactly like my ex husband.

Bottom line...the man is hurting his child...and the child refused to answer his calls. If my father spoke to me in that way when he called me I wouldn't answer the phone, either. If this voicemail was any indication of the way he speaks to his daughter it is no wonder she doesn't want to pick up the phone. On top of that...IF (and this is a big if) her mother is trash talking her ex to their child his behavior just reinforces that. How dumb can the guy be?

I gave an example of how I handled the situation when my youngest son spent a year living with his father. His father was trash talking me practically all day every day based on what our son told the arresting officer who responded to my ex husband assaulting our son. My ex refused to allow our son to come visit me or his siblings, too. I went 8 months without seeing him because his father was being rotten. I usually just waited for my son to call me because he had his own cell phone and he would call almost daily. I never asked him about his father and would tell him what was going on with the rest of the family and ask him about what was going on with him in school, sports and the like. His father desperately tried to make me angry and instigate a fight. I knew that and was not about to be pulled into nonsense that would only cause my children pain. Eventually, our son rebelled against his father's behavior and forced his father to bring him to visit. I knew patience would allow the situation to resolve itself.

Alec Baldwin has caused damage and the worst thing to do once that has happened is to push yourself on the child. He needs to deal with his issues with anger and wait for her to come around. If he pulls back and waits, then she most likely WILL come around. If he keeps pushing she will pull further and further away from him, resent him for not giving her the space she needs and will end up hating him.

The fact is...the cases of "brainwashing" isn't anywhere near as common as you guys think it is. It's also BEST dealt with by refusing to react to it. Have faith that your child has enough brains to see who is behaving badly and who isn't...especially at 11 years old. His daughter is old enough to see what's really going on. To me, the fact that she won't answer her father's calls tells me that it is her father who is behaving the worst out of her parents...and that she is sick of listening to it.

At 11 years old, people are very capable, and very likely to be "brainwashed". 11 years old is very very young, specially when dealing with two adults. $hit, even adults can be very easily manipulated at times.

You can say whatever you want about her not doing what she's been accused of, but guess what??? We don't know. All we know is she released the tape to the media. All I know is that they are both wrong, and they are both hurting the child. So to say that he's the one who needs to be away, and the mother is the one who should keep her is totally moronic. THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY COIN. Two versions of the same story, and two sides to the same story.

He will always have anger and resentment towards his ex wife. To say that he can't see his kid until he's no longer angry about stuff from his marriage, is ridiculous. Now, if he continues with his anger after this latest embarrasement, then I would agree with you. But so far, we don't know much about these two, except that, one, he was totally wrong for leaving that nasty message, and two, she was wrong for releasing it to manipulate the situation.

[Wyldfire]

At 11 years old, people are very capable, and very likely to be "brainwashed". 11 years old is very very young, specially when dealing with two adults. $hit, even adults can be very easily manipulated at times.

You can say whatever you want about her not doing what she's been accused of, but guess what??? We don't know. All we know is she released the tape to the media. All I know is that they are both wrong, and they are both hurting the child. So to say that he's the one who needs to be away, and the mother is the one who should keep her is totally moronic. THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERY COIN. Two versions of the same story, and two sides to the same story.

He will always have anger and resentment towards his ex wife. To say that he can't see his kid until he's no longer angry about stuff from his marriage, is ridiculous. Now, if he continues with his anger after this latest embarrasement, then I would agree with you. But so far, we don't know much about these two, except that, one, he was totally wrong for leaving that nasty message, and two, she was wrong for releasing it to manipulate the situation.

We don't know that Kim Basinger released the voice mail. In fact...the person the voice mail was leaked to eluded that it was actually the 11 year old girl who leaked the voice mail.

I don't know if you have children or not, but I do. I have 4 children ages 21, 18, 16 and 7. I know full well that 11 year olds are a lot more capable of thinking for themselves than most people would think.

The first clue as to who is the one causing the problems is to find out who left who. I did some research and found that Kim Basinger left Alec Baldwin and filed for divorce. She wanted out and she got what she wanted...a divorce. The person who leaves a marriage they want out of is NOT angry and bitter when they leave. They feel like they have a new lease on life and are happy and full of hope for the future. The one who was left feels rejected, angry, hurt and once the initial shock passes...bitter. Alec Baldwin is, without a doubt, the one who started the whole ugly process that has unfolded out of a need to try to make his ex hurt just as much as she hurt him. What's the best way to hurt the mother of your child who has just left you? Fight for custody and angrily tell her that you're going to take the child away from her.

That will cause the mother to go into defensive mode. Because the jilted parent knows full well that they are being vindictive, they expect the same behavior from their ex...and assume that the other parent will "brainwash" the child or somehow interfere with their relationship with the child.

That is NOT where the person who left wanted things to go. They just wanted out of the marriage and to move on with life...but the bitter parent will not let them...because they have a compulsion to "get even". That's how these long, nasty custody battles begin and go on and on endlessly.

The child will know who keeps filing the court motions and creating conflict. Again, it is Alec Baldwin who keeps filing the motions. Perhaps the kid is just sick and tired of the stupid fighting and just wants to have a normal, peaceful life. If her father is the one being vindictive and looking for a fight, she is going to notice that all on her own at 11 years old.

I think his daughter is the one who leaked the message. The poor kid probably feels like her life is being ripped apart by all the fighting and although it impacts her the most, she has the least say or control over in which way she gets pulled or pushed by the courts and her parents. What better way to put an end to it than to leak that message and let the whole world know that this is about HER and NOT her parents.

If my 7 year old can upload a video message she recorded of herself into my email account and send it to her grandmother then I think an 11 year old is bright enough to figure out what I talked about in the previous paragraph.

[Gangster Of Love]

Sure. I am sure the child contacted her agent and released it to the media! The mother is just as guilty. She released this. I seriously doubt she is as "Street Savy" as your kids were at whatever age you think they can't be manipulated.

YOu don't know what is going on in their lives.

[Gangster Of Love]

We will know about this, as the days go by, I am sure. Then I will comment on more than just speculation.

[Wyldfire]

Here is a recent photo of Ireland Baldwin
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2007/04/kim_basinger_01.jpg

Kids of famous parents actually tend to grow up more quickly than normal kids do. She probably has her own cell phone and computer and the internet. She could have easily emailed that voice mail to TMZ.com without her mother even knowing about it.

[Bad_Lil'Pixie]

To me, their both playing the child as nothing more then a pawn. Kim pushes and baits him KNOWING his anger management is poor, he pushes her with verbal slams and they both use the child like a weapon. He's bad mouthing his ex, she's bad mouthing him and the child is trying to please and live up to expectations set before her.

Sure what he did was wrong, regardless of your frustration you keep your temper in check when it comes to children.

She was wrong, sending it over to the press. Save your arguments that it "might not have been her", it was probably some flunky paralegal that her and her attorney set up, to tell you the truth. But in some way, she did push it through, it wasn't done out of her control or knowledge.

To me, the fault lays heaviest on the judicial system that left the custody of this child so open and undefined. The FIRST concern of the court should be for the child’s well being. If the non-custodial parent (dad) had prearranged times to call his child and the custodial parent hinders that or does not see that the child is available for the call then they should be held responsible. An 11 year old is NOT a qualified decision maker, at 11 you still should have some form of parental leadership in your life.

I am not really thrilled about an 11 year old having an unmonitored cell phone to begin with. Had this child had proper supervision she'd not gotten that message to begin with. Not only did the custodial parent fail to protect her from the call, the custodial parent set her up worldwide to be embarrassed.

It is ashamed that her childhood memories are so inundated with the hate each parent held for each other.

To me this all further shows that sperm and egg does NOT a parent make.

[logic1]

The real reason Alec Baldwin acted the way he did.

To put it in clinical terms. He is classified as a Pathological Narcissist.

He quit maturing emotionally before he was a teenager. The world evolves around him...........and only him.

[Gangster Of Love]

The real reason Alec Baldwin acted the way he did.

To put it in clinical terms. He is classified as a Pathological Narcissist.

He quit maturing emotionally before he was a teenager. The world evolves around him...........and only him.

To put it in clinical terms, Go out there and get laid. I love the world of geekdom.

I am almost sure you meant "revolves" instead of "evolves", anyway, they are booth very messed up, egomaniacs who are using their child.

[logic1]

Hey Gansta or whatever

Why did that comment strike a cord with you??

I was giving my opinion of one of the questions asked in this thread

Carry on

[Gangster Of Love]

Hey Gansta or whatever

Why did that comment strike a cord with you??

I was giving my opinion of one of the questions asked in this thread

Carry on

Carry on my wayward son!! I didn't mean to hurt your little feelings. If I did, I apologize to you.

Because the ex wife is just as sick, and is using the child (denying visitation rights, etc) capitalizing on Mr. Baldwin's anger issues. They are both sick. To blame just him would be naive.

[Wyldfire]

Well, if this is the way Alec Baldwin always treats his daughter and the girl is coming back and telling her mother she doesn't want to see him (quite possible) then Kim MAY be trying to avoid cooperating with visitation, which, in a case of the other parent verbally and emotionally abusing the child, would be justified.

I'm not saying that Kim is not contributing to the problem and handling the situation badly. I'm just saying that it is almost always the person who was left that causes the problems in a divorce...and Alec was the one who was left. I'm also saying that I think it's entirely possible that the daughter is responsible for the leak of the message and that it's also quite possible that her mother had no knowledge of it. You can bet that Kim would use it in court. In fact, it would have had much more impact had she kept it quiet until court...because she would have proof and could not be accused of leaking it to the media and risk having it thrown out. Strategically speaking...it was stupid to leak it. That's also why I'm really leaning more towards the daughter doing it. She could have done it to embarrass both of her parents so badly they would stop acting like idiots. She could have done it to get it thrown out as evidence. She could have done it to force the court to stop making her see and talk to her father. There's lots of things that could have happened.

[logic1]

Gansta

You dont know me so dont act like you do!

You dont need to apologize and for what?...................

You can have the last say. I'l disappear for a while.

[Wyldfire]

I just heard on cable news that last fall Alec Baldwin behaved in an even worse way towards his daughter at the Los Angeles airport because he didn't like the way she had packed her bag. Apparently a bunch of witnesses saw him fly into a rage and tell her "I'm going to kill you if you pack like that again", among other things and that tears were streaming down her face while he verbally attacked her in public.

I really am convinced it was his daughter that leaked the message even more now. No one wants to be around someone who snaps at them over something so trivial as how they pack or missing a phone call...scheduled or not. I bet the girl leaked it because the judge keeps ignoring her mother asking the judge to deal with this. It would explain why Kim would try to avoid going along with visitation, too. I really do think the girl is responsible for the leak.

[Latinoman]

The actor (used loosely) Alec Baldwin has been in a tumultuous custody battle with Kim Basinger. It has exposed his AFC ways as shown in a voice mail message obtained by TMZ.com. Fellas, whatever happens in your life, don't become this guy. Oh yeah, he's not talking to Kim.

Listen to the voice mail message. (http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_audio/0419_baldwin.mp3)

He is an AFC...but not because of this incident (although, I don't like some of the words he used...I feel his anger is more than justified and I will explain later why).

He is an AFC for the way he was acting toward Kim when they both were together. He was treating her like if she was the ONLY GREAT WOMAN to ever live.

The issue on the child is different. The child is getting the parents to fight each other, so she can get away with whatever she wants. This is very common in divorces (I know that for a fact). The COURT ordered that Alec be able to call his child at a certain date and time. The last two times he has done that...the child has turned the cell phone off. This is the ONLY time he is allowed to contact the child by Court Order as Kim didn't want him near the child and the court is forcing her to allow him to make the calls.

The child is a bratt. And she is destine to become a Paris Hilton or that skinny Ritchie girl is she is not put into place.

The ironic part of this is that Alec is a Progressive Liberal...but he acted like a Conservative (which believe in discipline).

Leaking that voice mail to the Media is more damaging to the child than the tongue lashing (I had my shared of tongue lashing and turned out alright and have given my share and my children turned out alright too).

[Latinoman]

Well, if this is the way Alec Baldwin always treats his daughter and the girl is coming back and telling her mother she doesn't want to see him (quite possible) then Kim MAY be trying to avoid cooperating with visitation, which, in a case of the other parent verbally and emotionally abusing the child, would be justified.



Kim is not cooperating with Visitation, because Kim is a biatch. She has been putting her daughter against her dad from the get go and she has been uncoperative with the Court. If anything, she is unfit to have the child, because she is not abiding by the concept of Co-parenting.

Here is the thing...Alec is trying to do what a LOT of fathers don't want to do. And that is be part of his child life.

Now, losing control is not cool. But if I was in his shoes under the same circunstances in which the only time I can interact with my child is by a phone call at ___ time at ___ day (because the Court ORDERED my wife to make my child accessible for that phone call)...and turns out that for the second consecutive day that phone is OFF. I would be SUPER PISSED OFF too.

[Latinoman]

I am not really thrilled about an 11 year old having an unmonitored cell phone to begin with. Had this child had proper supervision she'd not gotten that message to begin with. Not only did the custodial parent fail to protect her from the call, the custodial parent set her up worldwide to be embarrassed.

And in my book it comes down to the above quote.

The custodial parent FAILED miserably on this issue. She has an unsupervised child and she set her up worldwide to be embarrassed.

As I said...in my eyes (and I'm sure the eyes of MANY conservative judges in America)...that's much more damaging that lashing at the child (now, if he continues with that lashing...then he should be considered unfit too).

[Latinoman]

NO ONE GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOUR BABY'S DADDY AND HOW YOU WERE A MORON TO BE KNOCKED UP BY A DUDE WHO'S NOW IN PRISON.

So much emotion! I dont even know how to change font sizes!

[Latinoman]

The best thing for both the child AND Alec is for them to have no contact for awhile until he deals with his anger towards her mother. If he continues to take out that anger on his daughter...she will hate him. IF Kim is "brainwashing" their daughter, the kid will figure it out and then it will be her mother that she hates. That's how it works...kids aren't stupid.

So...deny the Father ALL contact from the child...but ALLOW the mother to continue to have contact?

What kind of sh_it is that?

[speed dawg]

NO ONE GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOUR BABY'S DADDY AND HOW YOU WERE A MORON TO BE KNOCKED UP BY A DUDE WHO'S NOW IN PRISON.

I found her post fairly interesting and it could possibly be useful to someone reading this thread. Yours, on the other hand....

[Wyldfire]

Kim is not cooperating with Visitation, because Kim is a biatch. She has been putting her daughter against her dad from the get go and she has been uncoperative with the Court. If anything, she is unfit to have the child, because she is not abiding by the concept of Co-parenting.

Here is the thing...Alec is trying to do what a LOT of fathers don't want to do. And that is be part of his child life.

Now, losing control is not cool. But if I was in his shoes under the same circunstances in which the only time I can interact with my child is by a phone call at ___ time at ___ day (because the Court ORDERED my wife to make my child accessible for that phone call)...and turns out that for the second consecutive day that phone is OFF. I would be SUPER PISSED OFF too.

Alec is and has always been a short-tempered verbally abusive hot head. He has an anger problem that he needs to deal with. That is why his ex left him in the first place. It's most likely also why his daughter is avoiding him.

If your child begs and cries to their mother not to have to talk to or see their father because of verbal abuse or any kind of abuse the mother is going to try to protect their child. If that's what's going on then you really can't fault Kim for not wanting to send their daughter off to get verbally and emotionally abused.

Children are not possessions, they are human beings...and in divorce, both the parents and the courts treat them like possessions. The judge needs to bring that girl into his or her chambers and talk to her and find out what is going on and what the girl wants and why.

The court put the girl in therapy and appointed a therapist. Alec tried to have the court switch therapists because the one the court originally appointed was reporting to the court that Alec was behaving badly towards his daughter.

Everything that has come out points towards Alec being abusive and controlling to his child. Since it REALLY look like he's a verbally and emotionally abusive control freak, he would have treated Kim that way as well. Once you divorce someone like that they try to use the children and court to exert that control. He's filing one court motion after another...many of them over very trivial things. He is clearly the problem...not only for his daughter, but also for himself.

[Wyldfire]

So...deny the Father ALL contact from the child...but ALLOW the mother to continue to have contact?

What kind of sh_it is that?

Temporarily, yes. It's in both Ireland's AND Alec's best interest to cut contact for AWHILE. Alec needs to go to counseling to deal with his anger and bitterness towards Kim AND especially his anger issue. Father and child NEED a cooling-off period. If he does not back off or the court does not force him to back off he WILL destroy his relationship with his daughter permanently.

He will push and try to force his child to cater to HIS wants while entirely ignoring how she feels and what is best for her...if the court doesn't step in.

I'm not suggesting the court cut all contact permanently at this point. I'm suggesting they cut contact for 6 months and tell Alec they will review things in 6 months...and make suggestions about what he should do to regain visitation. Until he can show that he has addressed his anger, bitterness, need to control others and can take responsibility for what he has been doing wrong rather than blame his ex for HIS behavior he should not see his daughter.

If the court does this and he does what they tell him he must to see his daughter or speak to her again then he is putting his child first. If he refuses then he is putting himself first and the court should tack on another 6 months.

That's the only way this child is going to be able to live in peace. This is about the CHILD, not about Alec or Kim.

If he doesn't fix his issues now and the court doesn't protect his daughter from his abuse then his relationship with her will be horrible. She will resent him, despise him, will not be pleasant for him to see, etc.

When that girl turns 18 she will never see or speak to her father again if he continues the way he's going.

[Wyldfire]

I found her post fairly interesting and it could possibly be useful to someone reading this thread. Yours, on the other hand....

Call_Me_Daddy is a troll, fyi.

[wayword]

NO ONE GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT YOUR BABY'S DADDY AND HOW YOU WERE A MORON TO BE KNOCKED UP BY A DUDE WHO'S NOW IN PRISON.LMFAO - this post should be stickied. :D

If you want functional advice, you have to go to functional women (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1146144&postcount=100).

[Latinoman]

If your child begs and cries to their mother not to have to talk to or see their father because of verbal abuse or any kind of abuse the mother is going to try to protect their child. If that's what's going on then you really can't fault Kim for not wanting to send their daughter off to get verbally and emotionally abused.






Fact is...it is NOT up to the child not Kim. It is up to the court.

The child (especially at that age) will always want to go with the parent that buys their love. The parent that allows the child to do whatever.

Once a parent BLATANTLY disobeys the Court. Then that parent on itself is becoming non-fit.

[Latinoman]

Temporarily, yes. It's in both Ireland's AND Alec's best interest to cut contact for AWHILE. Alec needs to go to counseling to deal with his anger and bitterness towards Kim AND especially his anger issue. Father and child NEED a cooling-off period. If he does not back off or the court does not force him to back off he WILL destroy his relationship with his daughter permanently.



That's total bull sh_it.

Who are YOU or I or anyone (other than Court) to determine the best interest between Alec and the child?

I say that the reason this is happening is because Kim is poisoning the child's mind. And that on itself is view in court as CHILD ABUSE.

Another thing...and I have seen it many times...at the end...the daughter WILL look for him. Maybe not now. But in their adulhoods life. At the end...the one loosing will be Kim.

[Latinoman]

He will push and try to force his child to cater to HIS wants while entirely ignoring how she feels and what is best for her...if the court doesn't step in.



I don't care how my children feel when it comes to doing what I (as an ADULT and a PARENT) feels is right.

He is trying to do what is best for her. Kim Biatchinger is interfering by influencing the daughter not to contact him and to turn the cell phone off.

[Wyldfire]

Fact is...it is NOT up to the child not Kim. It is up to the court.

The child (especially at that age) will always want to go with the parent that buys their love. The parent that allows the child to do whatever.

Once a parent BLATANTLY disobeys the Court. Then that parent on itself is becoming non-fit.

It should be up to the child...because if it were, the parents would be forced to stop using children as pawns to try to hurt and "get even" with each other.

If it were Kim behaving as Alec has behaved I bet you would be insisting that Alec should get full custody and that Kim should be denied all contact. I would be too. The difference is...I don't care whether it is the mother or the father. ANY parent who abuses a child should not have access to that child.

[Wyldfire]

That's total bull sh_it.

Who are YOU or I or anyone (other than Court) to determine the best interest between Alec and the child?

I say that the reason this is happening is because Kim is poisoning the child's mind. And that on itself is view in court as CHILD ABUSE.

Another thing...and I have seen it many times...at the end...the daughter WILL look for him. Maybe not now. But in their adulhoods life. At the end...the one loosing will be Kim.


IF Kim is the source of the problem then her daughter will turn against her when she is an adult. IF Alec is the problem then his daughter will have no contact with him at all once she turns 18. Kid's are a lot smarter than they are given credit for. They are also human beings with feelings, thoughts, etc. They are innocent in a divorce, yet they are always the ones who get hurt the most when parents hate each other more than they love their kids.

In cases like this the judge needs to talk privately with the child to find out exactly what's going on.

[Latinoman]

It should be up to the child...father.





Up to the child? Jesus Christ...no used debating this topic with you.

[Latinoman]

IF Kim is the source of the problem then her daughter will turn against her when she is an adult. IF Alec is the problem then his daughter will have no contact with him at all once she turns 18. Kid's are a lot smarter than they are given credit for. They are also human beings with feelings, thoughts, etc. They are innocent in a divorce, yet they are always the ones who get hurt the most when parents hate each other more than they love their kids.

In cases like this the judge needs to talk privately with the child to find out exactly what's going on.


It is the RESPONSIBILITY of a parent to shape the behavior of a child so the child can become a contributer to society.

No 11 year old child knows crap and they should have ZERO say on who should raise them.

In cases like this...the judge should have taken the child from Kim. Because Kim is NOT following the judge order. Simple as that.

[Gangster Of Love]

IF Kim is the source of the problem then her daughter will turn against her when she is an adult. IF Alec is the problem then his daughter will have no contact with him at all once she turns 18. Kid's are a lot smarter than they are given credit for. They are also human beings with feelings, thoughts, etc. They are innocent in a divorce, yet they are always the ones who get hurt the most when parents hate each other more than they love their kids.

In cases like this the judge needs to talk privately with the child to find out exactly what's going on.


So lets wait until she is 18. Lets allow these two troubled parents continue to mess up the child for another 7 years. Maybe at that point she will be messed up for life. Sure, let the mother poison her mind for another 7 years, and after that, she (the child) can decide if she wants to have a relationship with her father.

In cases like this the judge ( along with unbiased health/mental professionals) need to decide what is going on.

So what is it? Should the judge and health pro's decide, or should the 11 year minor decide???? Your starting to flip flop here.

[Wyldfire]

Up to the child? Jesus Christ...no used debating this topic with you.

If you view the child as marital property rather than a human being then no, there is no use debating with me on the topic.

[Latinoman]

If you view the child as marital property rather than a human being then no, there is no use debating with me on the topic.


The child is not a property. The child has PARENTS (two parents). And both parents or at least one will have to RAISE that child. Who?

The judge (or somebody assigned by the judge) should and will decide that.

I STRONGLY believe (as I have followed this case) that Kim is NOT the proper person to take custody over the child. The reason is simple: she has disregarded (CONSTANTLY) the court orders. She simply does not want Alec around the girl. And the reasons have NOTHING to do with Alec's ability to be a father. The reasons are personal.

Now, if Alec CONTINUES to behave the same way he did in the telephone...then he also would have issues. In fact, if he DENIES his mother the ability to see the girl, then he has serious issues.

No parent should be denied the right to see/raise his/her child unless the safety or wellbeing of the child was at risk. That's not the case in here, regardless of the voicemail.

[Wyldfire]

It is the RESPONSIBILITY of a parent to shape the behavior of a child so the child can become a contributer to society.

No 11 year old child knows crap and they should have ZERO say on who should raise them.

In cases like this...the judge should have taken the child from Kim. Because Kim is NOT following the judge order. Simple as that.

Yes, it is the responsibility of a parent to shape the behavior of a child by setting an example in their own behavior. We don't know the details of why or even if Kim has violated court orders. That case is still pending and at this point is nothing more than accusations by Alec.

What we DO know is that Alec has demonstrated verbally and emotionally abusive behavior towards his child out of anger towards his ex. We KNOW that his behavior is BAD and no judge in their right mind is going to put any child in his custody because he has clearly demonstrated that he is NOT setting a good example for his child to learn her behavior from.

[Wyldfire]

So lets wait until she is 18. Lets allow these two troubled parents continue to mess up the child for another 7 years. Maybe at that point she will be messed up for life. Sure, let the mother poison her mind for another 7 years, and after that, she (the child) can decide if she wants to have a relationship with her father.

In cases like this the judge ( along with unbiased health/mental professionals) need to decide what is going on.

So what is it? Should the judge and health pro's decide, or should the 11 year minor decide???? Your starting to flip flop here.

The court DID order a counselor to work with the girl. The court appointed the therapist. The therapist reported back information that went against Alec's claims. Rather than alter his behavior, Alec accused the therapist of "siding with Kim" and filed yet another motion asking that the court appoint a different therapist. Kim didn't pick the therapist...the court did.

Everything being reported indicates that Alec is so obsessed with his anger and bitterness with Kim that he hates his ex more than he loves his child.

[Latinoman]

We don't know the details of why or even if Kim has violated court orders.

Doesn't matter the details. Fact is her (via lawyer) violated the court orders. And this is NOT the first time either.


We KNOW that his behavior is BAD and no judge in their right mind is going to put any child in his custody.


I am willing to bet that MANY judges would overlook this. Judges don't get "emotional" like you or the press. In fact, I bet that a judge would view a parent CONSTANTLY disregarding court orders as more damaging to a child. And the leaking of the tape is considerably more damaging to the child, THAT is why it was ORDERED to stay sealed.

Mark my words...Kim and her challenging attituted toward court is going to bite her in the azz.

None of us have all the facts...the Judge does.

[Latinoman]

The court DID order a counselor to work with the girl. The court appointed the therapist. The therapist reported back information that went against Alec's claims. Rather than alter his behavior, Alec accused the therapist of "siding with Kim" and filed yet another motion asking that the court appoint a different therapist. Kim didn't pick the therapist...the court did.

Everything being reported indicates that Alec is so obsessed with his anger and bitterness with Kim that he hates his ex more than he loves his child.

Actually...Kim DENYING Alec's the ability to contact (and in the past even see) her daughter...and CHALLENGING the court (even the judge) is a clear indication that she is bitter and that she is UNFIT to follow Court Orders (as they are the ones deciding what's best for the girl).

[Wyldfire]

The child is not a property. The child has PARENTS (two parents). And both parents or at least one will have to RAISE that child. Who?

The judge (or somebody assigned by the judge) should and will decide that.

I STRONGLY believe (as I have followed this case) that Kim is NOT the proper person to take custody over the child. The reason is simple: she has disregarded (CONSTANTLY) the court orders. She simply does not want Alec around the girl. And the reasons have NOTHING to do with Alec's ability to be a father. The reasons are personal.

Now, if Alec CONTINUES to behave the same way he did in the telephone...then he also would have issues. In fact, if he DENIES his mother the ability to see the girl, then he has serious issues.

No parent should be denied the right to see/raise his/her child unless the safety or wellbeing of the child was at risk. That's not the case in here, regardless of the voicemail.

I disagree that Alec should have custody of his daughter. What he is doing IS damaging to his child. He is taking out his anger on her. My ex husband started with verbal and emotional abuse too...and it didn't take to long before he added physical abuse to his repertoire of efforts to control others. If it's found that Kim is actually guilty of what Alec claims then Ireland should be sent to live with relatives who love her more than they hate each other so she can actually have peace in her life.

[Wyldfire]

Doesn't matter the details. Fact is her (via lawyer) violated the court orders. And this is NOT the first time either.





I am willing to bet that MANY judges would overlook this. Judges don't get "emotional" like you or the press. In fact, I bet that a judge would view a parent CONSTANTLY disregarding court orders as more damaging to a child. And the leaking of the tape is considerably more damaging to the child, THAT is why it was ORDERED to stay sealed.

Mark my words...Kim and her challenging attituted toward court is going to bite her in the azz.

None of us have all the facts...the Judge does.


And you are assuming that it was Kim or someone acting on her behalf who released the tape. Who is to say that she didn't file it as evidence in court and some court clerk saw a chance to make a lot of money for selling it to TMZ and made a copy? Who is to say Ireland didn't forward the message to a friend whose parents sold it to TMZ?

There are MANY ways the voice mail message could have been leaked. TMZ reps have been interviewed and I've watched those interviews. They have been hinting that it was Ireland herself who released it and that she is glad it is receiving all the attention and hopes that it's release will finally stop all the "noise".

How do you know that Kim has a challenging attitude towards the court? I've searched news articles back to 2001 and all I've seen is a bunch of accusations being thrown out there without any proof to back the accusations up.

If the judge were going to overlook it they would not have barred all contact between Alec and Ireland after the message became known to them.

Oh...and who is to say that Alec didn't release the message himself in an attempt to get Kim in trouble? It would make as much sense for him to release it as it would for her to release it.

[Wyldfire]

Actually...Kim DENYING Alec's the ability to contact (and in the past even see) her daughter...and CHALLENGING the court (even the judge) is a clear indication that she is bitter and that she is UNFIT to follow Court Orders (as they are the ones deciding what's best for the girl).

Kim is the one who left Alec. The person who leaves is never the bitter one. It's always the person who was left. And again...there is no PROOF that Kim is denying Alec contact with their daughter. There are only Alec's accusations of such.

[Latinoman]

It was reported in the news several weeks ago that kim was literally challenging court orders by denying alec access. No offense, but you are giving me the impression that your own past experiences are clouding your judgment. The typical bitterness I made reference when I advice against dating 35+ wowen that are also 5+ year older than the man. Too much emotional baggage.

[Paradox]

And so it goes.

Thread closed.

P.S. I loved Alec in the movie "Vampires". Oh wait that was Daniel. Nevermind.