Being Christian and turning the other cheek

[Kwello]

So he was casted back down to Earth and somehow you misconstrue this as meaning that he's ruling a place called hell? Nothing about an underworld was even mentioned... his punishment was being banished from heaven and sent back to Earth. So I guess Earth is hell then.

You still insist that if my beliefs are wrong; I'll burn. That ENTIRE concept of burning, agony, hell and everything is mainly derived from a FICTIONAL work by Dante.

You clearly do not understand the difference between fiction and reality and in fact proved so right in the previous sentence of your post... the one where you claim I'll burn for my wrong beliefs. As I said, the notion of burning is courtesy of Dante's fictional work.

Also the fact that you sit here quoting passages from the Bible pretty much solidifies your stance on fiction vs reality.

Why should 2000 years change anything? If someone claimed to be a prophet now he'd probably get put on NBC/YouTube and mocked by the populace... yet 2000 years ago due to lack of information and poorer living conditions, people were more susceptible to believe something like that. Anything to ease the pain of their terrible lives. 2000 years ago, the average person would come across less information in their ENTIRE life than ONE issue of the New York Times contains.

Information is a dangerous thing, so is lack of information/misinformation. I feel like you fall into the latter category.

[absolut honesty]

faggot moderator deleted my thread on looks which was insightful

but THIS kinda bs is still here???

yea, so much for seduction and being Suave

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

I never said that I believed Lucifer ruled Hell. Since he was cast into the lake of fire, he would be enduring eternal torment. Not exactly a position to rule.

3 hours later...

So he was casted back down to Earth and somehow you misconstrue this as meaning that he's ruling a place called hell?

Try to keep up.

That ENTIRE concept of burning, agony, hell and everything is mainly derived from a FICTIONAL work by Dante.

No it's not. You've been hanging out on leftist smear sites. Don't believe me? Check Matthew 13:50, Mark 9:48, Revelation 14:10-11 and Revelation 20:14-15.

Also the fact that you sit here quoting passages from the Bible pretty much solidifies your stance on fiction vs reality.

Proof is in the pudding, my friend. Nothing shuts you and Nighthawk down quicker than proof. Although, it seems I had to do it twice for you.

2000 years ago, the average person would come across less information in their ENTIRE life than ONE issue of the New York Times contains.

You missed the point. I mentioned that you were younger than 2,000 years old to solidify that you have no proof to back up your stance. Therefore, you are forced to acknowledge the possibility that my faith is correct.

I feel like you fall into the latter category.

Again, that's because you didn't do your homework. Or look on page 5 of this thread, it seems.

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

faggot moderator deleted my thread on looks which was insightful

Skip...you know that nobody wants you here, right? Don't try to flame up a civil discussion. Go create a couple looks-matter threads in the Discussion Forum if you want to see a few flames before you get banned.

[ryannath]

Do I think ppl's souls will go to heaven or hell when they die? Well, Yes I do and I'll tell you why. I know a guy that overdosed on drugs and he died for a few mins. He was dead, but he came back to life. He said that while he was dead there were little demons throwing hubcaps at him.

But, then again, I have a friend that was dead for a few mins because of a motorcyle crash. Someone pulled out in front of him and he hit their car, and he was dead for about 8 mins I think, but he said he doesn't remember the part when he was dead. He said that dead part didn't hurt at all. He said the living part is what hurt. So, think of that what you will...

[jonwon]

Reading the posts of religions indocterined and the none conformists is always interesting.

Anyway, i like how the relgious ones use fear to try to indocerine the others and how they accept responisbilty for other peoples mistakes.
How conformist.

Anyway the none-religion are probably just as bad, the two sided worship of nothing or something is like seeing:

One side of the road a christian preacher or the other side of the road an athiest preacher.

I say sod that i will dodge the traffic :D

Anyway my take on it.

If no one feared death religion would never have happened.

also even the biggest athiest wonders at how great the world is and how well it as been engineered.

but only a fool would believe in FAITH!

FAITH is believing in something that as no proof, hence have faith it is there.

I have FAITH when i wake up and i know the world can be MY HEAVEN and i have faith when i wake up the world can be MY HELL.

After that well thats open to debate but i doubt its some sorded boring shi* hole or some torture wrac*ed hell pit, i mean FFS really even Hollywood would have trouble spinning that cr** these days.

Oh the bible god can kiss my as* sorry, but hes about as real as the pink elephant sat on my shoulder telling me to write this post! Have FAITH brother the elephent is there, BELIEVE and it shall be!! If you beleive in the pink elephent you will go to a place when you DIE that is better, just live your life to his rules.

The ELEPHENT like you to do ten push-ups a day, feed him loads of stuff, talk about him to your mates, even if they think your mad and they cant see it! but FAITH and the power of the pink will pull through and enocurage your mates to finally open there EYES to the GLORY of the PINK ELPEHENT.
(if this above sounds like some form of childish nursery type stuff hey dont worry, i see the same thing alot anyway).

Does that mean there is no god! Well if there is one and he MADE what ever the fuc* this is, i sure as hell dont think he would be getting piss* over stuff in the bible put it that way.

I love these threads i really do!

Fear is the core foundation of religion which ever way you look at it, in that its hard to imagine any form of organised religion being 'created' by man for the purpose of 'control'.

[Nighthawk]

Deus, you have admitted there is no proof that Christianity is right, and it comes down to faith. So far, so true. You then contend that non-belief of (the Christian) God is just another faith-based position.

By this reasoning, your (assumed) non-belief in Thor or Smurfs is also a matter of faith, not scientific, evidence-based enquiry. You can't have it both ways, either a belief is supported or damned by the evidence, or it's valid so long as someone believes it.

'Faith' is a cop-out, but one that religion needs because what they are selling is, well, retarded.

Some fun Bible quotes.

Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at [the prophet Elisha], saying, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.
-- II Kings 2:23-24

Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return ... will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." ... and the Lord gave them into his hands.... When Jephthah returned to his home..., who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! And he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
-- Judges 11:30-32, 34, 39

Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!" But the man refused to strike the prophet. Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me." And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him. (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

Anyway, i like how the relgious ones use fear to try to indocerine the others and how they accept responisbilty for other peoples mistakes.
How conformist.

I don't do that. How judgmental.

If no one feared death religion would never have happened.

Why bother trying to take the high-road of neutrality and then turning right around and coming out as an atheist?

Oh the bible god can kiss my as* sorry

Hope that works out well for you. All I can say is that you'd better be getting some pretty spectacular compensation for you to risk eternal bliss for posting stuff like that on the Internet.


By this reasoning, your (assumed) non-belief in Thor or Smurfs is also a matter of faith, not scientific, evidence-based enquiry.

Ok, so we've established that the Bible does discuss Satan trying to overtake God. We've established that the Bible discusses Hell in detail. We've established that the Bible names the Devil taking the form as the serpent. Now that we've got THAT out of the way, let's move on to your Smurfs "analogy."

My disbelief in the Smurfs is not a matter of faith. Nice try. The animators have done interviews. It is a provable fact that the Smurfs do not exist.

You can't have it both ways, either a belief is supported or damned by the evidence, or it's valid so long as someone believes it.

No, that's completely false. My faith exists regardless of the massive amounts of scientific evidence supporting it. The reason I CAN have it both ways, is because I AM having it both ways.

'Faith' is a cop-out, but one that religion needs because what they are selling is, well, retarded.

Another gem from Nighthawk! I gotta tell you, man...your borderline obsessive usage of the word "retarded" to describe an opposing viewpoint is really wearing me down here; I don't know how to counter that!

Some fun Bible quotes.

Three symbolic quotes from the Bible that sound strange to you is supposed to support your case? Please. I could do the same for your Bible too: Paradise Lost. But then, that'd just be childish and wouldn't help my side at all.

[Vypros]

The funny thing I get about people who are atheist or agnostic is that they spend INCREDIBLE amounts of time debating relgion, specificially Christianity.

Now, I can see an agnostic who is truly unsure about it debating it, but most agnostics IMMEDIATELY take the stance of disproving the bible and Christianity.

To those people I ask: If you truly don't know, why are you taking a stance AGAINST one option that is out there?

If you truly don't know, then you should be OPEN to the idea of ANY religion, and look at it from an unbiased standpoint. Not attacking people who DO believe, which is what I see here.

In fact, I see an INCREDIBLE amount of d*ck measuring and c*ck fighting going on here and the damned thread has absolutely JACK to do with religion. The thread is about "turning the other cheek", which can be argued from a non-religious standpoint as well.

How insecure are you with your beliefs that you have to turn a thread about a vague concept into an attack on a specific religion?

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

To those people I ask: If you truly don't know, why are you taking a stance AGAINST one option that is out there?

Yeah, I've been trying to get that out of these guys for 3 pages now. None of them will answer. Interesting...

[Call_Me_Daddy]

How insecure are you with your beliefs that you have to turn a thread about a vague concept into an attack on a specific religion?

Ok Mr. Armchair Warrior.

Vypros

Age: 25
Join Date: 03-19-2007 (March 19th)
Total Posts: 485 (15.26 posts per day)

[Nighthawk]

I'll argue about anything.

But Christians who come onto threads threatening unbelievers with eternal hellfire whilst not knowing their own holy book are particularly appealing.

Having said that, I'm done with this thread. See you in Hell, Deus.

btw I've never read Paradise Lost

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

Having said that, I'm done with this thread. See you in Hell, Deus.

Please. Take your defeat like a man, and bow out gracefully. You tested my knowledge of the Bible by making outrageous statements (the one about how the Bible doesn't mention Hell being the most egregious by FAR), and I passed with flying colors every time which efficiently swatted your "points" away one by one.

For the record, I can't really consider this a victory as my main opponent in this could only muster Smurf analogies and a spamming of the word "retarded" to defend his godless viewpoints.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...Having said that, I'm done with this thread. See you in Hell, Deus.
We're changing the venue? Are you guys going to change gear too? Flaming pitchforks? :D

[Page]

All you have done is prove my point, that in the whole of The Bible there is not one passage to back up your erroneous but common view of Lucifer The Ex-Angel Being Banished From Heaven And Ruling Hell.



Okay, time to clear up a few things.

It must be made clear that Lucifer is already condemned, but has not been punished yet. Therefore, he is not in Hell right now, but is here on earth.

1 Peter 3:8: "Be sober, be alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."

Revelation 20:10: "And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Also, the Bible says nothing about Lucifer ruling hell. That comes out of Paradise lost. If anything, God rules hell since He created it and has to sustain it like everything else (Which He will have to do for eternity.) When the time comes, metaphorically speaking, Lucifer won't be the warden of hell, he'll be in general population just like everyone else who has been condemned by God. Lucifer will not be punished any more or any less than anyone else who is there ,since there is no partiality with God. (Romans 2:11)




You may be wondering how can anyone experience suffering if they are a spirit floating somewhere in hell. Well, it won't be like that. God's judgement requires a corporeal existence to be effective. Since heaven is absolute honor and unity with God, hell will be the approximate opposite -- absolute wrath and indignation. Also, just as Christians will be given new regenerated bodies to match the regenerated spirit, the unsaved will also be given bodies as well (John 5:28-29)-- but those bodies will be designed only to experience wrath and torment.

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

Thanks for backing me up, Renegade but I MORE than have this under control.

This is the Anything Else section anyway. I know you've only been here for four days, but you should know that this is where you talk about everything except women.

[whistler]

Believing in the existence of God requires being irrational.

To hold an argument, both arguers must adhere to rationality -- it supplies the rules of the game and let's a winner be found.

An argument between a believer and non-believer will be fruitless.

So what's the point?

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

Believing in the existence of God requires being irrational.

You equate faith with irrationality? Sad.

An argument between a believer and non-believer will be fruitless.

So what's the point?

You tell me. You're the one who just made an inflammatory statement about 96% of the world's population. So what made you choose the side of such a sparse minority of people and defend it on here?

[whistler]

You equate faith with irrationality? Sad.


I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm making a statement.

Look up the word. Arguing for the existence of something without evidence is irrational. It's faith.

[Call_Me_Daddy]

Believing in the existence of God requires being irrational.

Following an organized religion with rules and regulations requires being irrational, because that's what the rules and regulations are based upon.

Its not the same case with God and spirituality in general.


An argument between a believer and non-believer will be fruitless.


Yup. I agree here though.

[Rata Blanca]

You know I would be very surprised if I do end up in hell.
"Damn it God you should have made it clearer!"

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

I'm not asking for your opinion. I'm making a statement.

State all you want, you'll still be wrong...in my opinion, of course. :)

Look up the word.

Thanks for the tip! Now I can just copy-paste why you're wrong instead of going through the whole motions of writing a paragraph.

faith n. (feyth)

3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.

That's the Christian definition of faith. Nothing in there about "evidence" or "proof". As for YOUR atheistic definition of faith, you would probably want to look to

2. belief that is not based on proof.

So you see, we are both creatures of faith. You can label either as irrational all day long, regardless of the definitions. I won't hold ya back.

[mahon83050]

Well, sorry this turned into "Does God exist or not debate".

What I should of stated in my post, was this:

Isn't it hard and contradictory to be a Don Juan and a Christian at the same time? I mean how can someone be a true Christian and constantly be comning up with ideas and goals to get down a girls pants?

They simply contradict one another.

[mahon83050]

Well, sorry this turned into "Does God exist or not debate".

What I should of stated in my post, was this:

Isn't it hard and contradictory to be a Don Juan and a Christian at the same time? I mean how can someone be a true Christian and constantly be comning up with ideas and goals to get down a girls pants?

They simply contradict one another.

Same thing aplies with being an alpha male and not taking any s*it or non-sense off any people. As Christians, we are supposed to be humble, meek and turn the other cheek.

However, maybe this is just my "good works" mindset that I have from 30 years of Catholicism. I have a Baptist friend who enlightened me with some things and I do agree what some Protestant religions teach.

[PeterNorthisawesome]

Who the hell cares, the bible is just a book, what you take from is personal. DJ is being a man, meaning do what you want. This discussion of god existing or not is pointless, both sides already have no intetion in changing their opinion. People should just respect each other's individuality and mind their own business. I just hate christians and atheists who try to push their beliefs on someone else.

I could end this debate right now and it would come out as a victory for the atheists, but I won't since I have no reason to support the atheists.

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

I could end this debate right now and it would come out as a victory for the atheists, but I won't since I have no reason to support the atheists.

Well now you've piqued my curiosity as someone who could perhaps pose a challenge. So far no atheist been able to come up with a single good reason to bet their afterlife on the chance that there is no God.

[PeterNorthisawesome]

Well now you've piqued my curiosity as someone who could perhaps pose a challenge. So far no atheist been able to come up with a single good reason to bet their afterlife on the chance that there is no God.

Ok the bible was wrote 2000 years ago during the Roman Era right? Meaning people living even before Jesus had NO CLUE what christianity was, meaning that they would all go to hell since noone followed "Christianity." Also if there was the bible to follow how come there are different branches of Christianity? What primary tool does religion use to convert others? Fear, the only reason your believing in Christianity is because of the fear of punishment. Still there is no proof of a "christian" ever receiving eternal life, meaning there is no gurantee so God can do as he pleases. You said why take the chance, well why are you taking the chance of believing in Christianity? There are other religions that you could believe in but why christianity? I bet both of your parents are christians and you were raised to believe it.

The bible itself contradicts itself so many times. There is a disparity between the Old Testament, identified with a jealous and vengeful God, lack of tolerance, and often violent attitude towards non-believers living near Jewish cities and lands, and the New Testament, identified with God as a loving father and an approach to salvation inclusive of all cultures.

[Nighthawk]

And to just clarify one thing, I never said I was an atheist. I'm open-minded about a 'higher power' while being very very skeptical about religion.

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

Ok the bible was wrote 2000 years ago during the Roman Era right? Meaning people living even before Jesus had NO CLUE what christianity was, meaning that they would all go to hell since noone followed "Christianity."

Not quite. Before Christ sacrificed himself, both sinners and the repentant went to purgatory. After he died on the cross, Jesus went ahead and closed purgatory thereby sending the sinners to go fry in Hell and sending the repentant ones to walk with God in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Also if there was the bible to follow how come there are different branches of Christianity?

People like to interpret the Bible different ways. We all have our own different "versions" of what it means to be a Christian.

What primary tool does religion use to convert others? Fear, the only reason your believing in Christianity is because of the fear of punishment.

Come now, that's a bit closed-minded, don't you think? Nobody used fear to convert me. After living as an atheist for quite some time, I felt what is called "the pull" back to God.

You said why take the chance, well why are you taking the chance of believing in Christianity?

Somebody already asked me that, but it's a completely different situation. Since nobody has proof for either side, both sides has to acknowledge the possibility that the other guy could be right. So let's say I acknowledge it's possible that there is no God and everybody just takes one long dirt nap after death. I died living the life of a Christian, serving God...and I receive nothing for it. Now let's take a look at what happens if an ATHEIST acknowledges that there is a God, and his word in the Bible should be taken as...Gospel. Since the atheist never accepted Christ as his/her savior or repented for his/her sins, they will burn. For a WHILE.

So you have nothingness being risked on my side (which the atheist will experience anyway according to them), and eternal suffering on the side of atheism.

There are other religions that you could believe in but why christianity? I bet both of your parents are christians and you were raised to believe it.

A common belief among non-Christians. I was baptised Catholic, but my parents took me to a Unitarian Universalist church many more times than I ever set foot in a Catholic church. So I suppose you could say I was raised as a Unitarian, chose Atheism for myself, and then made a full circle back to Catholicism.

The bible itself contradicts itself so many times.

I choose to use the Bible as more of a guide, rather than to take every word to heart. The books were written at different times by different Apostles and this means that views of events and sayings will sometimes differ. The core message remains, however.

[PeterNorthisawesome]

...and the core message of the bible remains that ALL CHRISTIANS WILL BE SAVED while every other religious people and non-believers will burn in hell. Tell me Deus you probaby had sex before marriage, why else would be part of this forum, if you weren't interested in a promiscuous life style. Meaning you sinned again, so by bible standards God will not spare you and you will like me, burn in hell for eternity. But maybe not since if you accept Jesus or God as a savior that you will be spared, isn't it illogical that a mass murder who accepts Jesus/God right before his execution will be spared, while someone like the Dalai Lama who promotes peace to thousands thoughout his life will die and suffer torture for eternity?

Ever think that heaven and hell only exists in a Christian's mind, so you might after you die either go to hell or heaven, while Muslims will go to their heaven. Atheists on the other hand will just assimilate back into Earth. But noone knows since there is no evidence. I don't see other religions trying to convince more people to join, Jews make you take tests to join their religion, while Christians try to force more people into it.

[Deus ex Pianoforte]

But maybe not since if you accept Jesus or God as a savior that you will be spared, isn't it illogical that a mass murder who accepts Jesus/God right before his execution will be spared, while someone like the Dalai Lama who promotes peace to thousands thoughout his life will die and suffer torture for eternity?

Again, the Bible is open to interpretation. I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know this. God is just, righteous, and fair. He knows the truth, and I believe that the Dalai Lama will be just fine in the afterlife one way or another.

I don't see other religions trying to convince more people to join, Jews make you take tests to join their religion, while Christians try to force more people into it.

You're thinking of evangelical Christians. I'm a Christian, and don't try to get anybody to join up. I have in fact thought of the possibilities you mentioned, as that's my obligation when I can provide no proof to the contrary. But those aren't my beliefs.