Greetings everyone. I'm 44 years old and have been married to my second wife for a little over 2 years. We have been arguing lately about finances and her social schedule and I am now staying at a buddies house while we figure out what to do. I know she still loves me and I feel the same, but I feel she has become a controlling, self-centered *****. Actually, she has been accused of that by HER family members and her previous marriage lasted less than a year. She gets too nutty with the charge cards(hers) and then complains that I need to make more money even though I make more money than her and she is a trust officer at a bank. I'm convinced that she is ***** testing and trying now to dominate the marriage. I'm not worried about being alone because I still have the looks and the personality to succeed, but like I've said, I still love her. What I'm asking for is how to deal with this situation in a manner where she knows I'm not going to accept this behavior any more. At the same time, I don't want to overdo it either. I know I would be WAY better off financially and there are still places and things that I want to do that I'm having trouble affording now. I want to deal with this like say, Steve Mcqueen would(HAHA). Any advice is GREATLY appreciated

Brother, I feel your pain. I truly do. What I've learned is that you can't fix anyone but yourself. Ever. And you shouldn't because what you're doing is robbing her of her chance to mature and learn from her mistakes. Too often men think being the knight in shining Armani will solve her ills. It won't. What it does is put all of the responsiblity on you and leaves her to mope and feel sorry for herself about something else.

You need to carry on with your maturation process and learn from your mistakes and reflect on those. Once she has come to grips with her own reality and responsiblity for her life you can allow her back into your life.

Not one second before.

Brother, I feel your pain. I truly do. What I've learned is that you can't fix anyone but yourself. Ever. And you shouldn't because what you're doing is robbing her of her chance to mature and learn from her mistakes. Too often men think being the knight in shining Armani will solve her ills. It won't. What it does is put all of the responsiblity on you and leaves her to mope and feel sorry for herself about something else.

You need to carry on with your maturation process and learn from your mistakes and reflect on those. Once she has come to grips with her own reality and responsiblity for her life you can allow her back into your life.

Not one second before.

If you like I have some literature you may find helpful. Send me a PM.

Irresponsibility with money is a VERY serious problem in a marriage. Reflecting on articles I've read, i'm relatively sure its the #1 reason for divorces (where a specific reason was given).

I agree with KarmaSutra in that you probably can't change her. Presuming you dont have kids (sounds like you don't), i'd end that relationship. Forgive me for not writing a longer narrative and just throwing that out. But i'm going on just what you said, and I think that's the best move unless you left out some details that are relevant.

Money makes the world go around, and if you dont have a team player, you're entire work career AND retirement life is always going to suffer with someone like that.

My wife is a team player when it comes to money and we have a very nice balance and are like-minded in that area. Having financial stability is very important to me though, so i do tend to rate this issue pretty high.

Azanon

Well, one thing you need to consider doing is to dig deeply into her core values and beliefs. I disagree about being unable to change other people. Whoever the first person who said "You cant change other peoples minds" probably had someone else put that idea in his head! Get it? Its a paradox. Most people cant deal with paradoxes but I doubt youre most people.

Listen. Look into her core values and beliefs. Ask her questions that force her to express them to you more clearly. If you are telling yourself, "Weve been married for 2 years, we know all of eachothers values and beliefs... STOP" STOP right there. A lot of values and beliefs are subconscious. You have to extract them from people just like a pschiatrist would to a patient by asking him questions that opens him up. This is just the beginning but these are essential steps in creating a change in her behavior and in rebuilding rapport by reconnecting yourselves to eachother on a level you can both understand.

Charm, you have obviously never married.

Danny, Steve McQueen never played the role of an accountant. You will need to get very tough with this one. As follows;

1 Prepare a budget. Cut anything which is excessive.
2 She has to get a second job or work overtime till she earns what you do.
3. You control the assets and she puts in an equal amount to your amount for living expenses.

Tell her a marriage license isn't an application form for a credit increase. Sometimes people who handle a lot of money at work get resentful about not having money. She could be one of them.

BTW you should get rid of her. I'm sure this behaviour was on display prior to your marriage, but you have been weak. If you have problems after only 2 years marriage, that is a bad sign indeed. Also she has been divorced before, so really you should not have married her. She is, at best, live in material. At worst, transitory sex material. Why not write out a list of why you love her. You'll find the list is a short one.

the real question you have ot ask yourself is why you are punishing yourself by marrying low quality women?

These bad relationships always come down to two complete opposites: the "feeling" of love and the reality of the situation. I've been crazy about women who I should have cut out of my life long before I did because I've done my best to look away from some of the core differences between her and I. It's insanity and will cause you a severe headache, at best. At worst it'll bring about an ending full of heart-wrenching drama and tens of thousands of dollars squandered on a legal battle, followed by years of having to live with whatever court decision is handed down from on high.

Look, figure out what sort of financial foundation you two need to make ends meet. Go to a financial advisor with her. If she refuses to change her ways then tell her to take a hike. Whatever you do, take your relationships a little more seriously next time.

Relationship problems have to be snuffed before they become a "problem". When you see something that could potentially cause problems like overspending, you need to put your foot down when that little voice inside of you says "uh-oh". Bring it up immediately instead of letting her get away with it for a long period of time. If you suddenly become intolerant of this habit she's had for all the time you've been together, she will think of you as an a55hole and resent you.

The groundwork for a good relationship NEEDS to be laid out in the beginning. Fixing something that has deteriorated beyond repair is going to be a long, uphill battle and it may not be worth the effort.

danny62 said:

She gets too nutty with the charge cards(hers) and then complains that I need to make more money even though I make more money than her

Click to expand...

You gotta shut that sh!t down NOW. You're not her meal-ticket.

Much as I hate to quote myself, I'll re-post this for convenience since it really applies to your situation sir.

It never ceases to amaze me how readily divorced women (and somtimes thrice divorced) are to dispense tips on the makings for a great marriage. Or more fascinating, to hear pvssywhipped husbands parrot these same lines. Divorced guy's marriage advice is usually "just don't get married." So allow me to toss in my two cents here.

I've been married to a gorgeous, fun and loving woman for 10 years now and we've got fantastic, whip-smart 8 year old daughter. I'm no trying to gloss myself, but I'm inclined to say I've got a pretty good marriage. In those 10 years I have yet to have a guy tell me he's getting more sex now than when he was single or dating his wife, but sex isn't the issue - desire is the root of your problem.

As I've said in many previous threads, properly motivated women will move across the country, crawl under barb wire and out a 2 story window to fvck a guy she has the genuine desire to fvck. This apples equally to your wife of 1.5 years. Before marriage women look for ways to get laid with a guy they want to marry; after marriage they look for ways to avoid it, but it's desire that motivates it. Chris Rock says it best when he goes into sex after marriage - "I haven't fvcked in 8 years. I've had 'intercourse', but I haven't fvcked since I got married. I haven't had a blow_job in 8 years. I've had 'fellatio' but I haven't had my d!ck sucked in 8 years." This is the essence of desire after marriage; it becomes another chore to add to a woman's to-do list. Get the kids to soccer practice, go get groceries, fvck her husband and fold the laundry. Add a fulltime job to that list and sleep becomes the new sex. But it's not about being tired or overwhelmed, it's about desire. My wife works a night shift at a hospital and if she came in at 2am and woke me up telling me she felt like having sex I could be in the deepest REM sleep and wake up to knock it out with her and be ready to go for two, because I want to have sex with her. Women love to play the "but I really want to, I'm just not into it now" card to counter this, but like any good DJ, never forget it's her behavior that defines intent, not her words. Remember, a woman will fvck; she might not fvck you, she might not fvck me, but she will fvck somebody. She just needs to be properly motivated.

All of those precondtions she had for you to accept YOUR offer of marriage - a good job, be a good provider, a good listener, be funny, have status, being reliable, a good pyshique; all of that does nothing to increase her desire to have sex with you. The single, bachelor DJ is concerned with Interest Levels the married Dj should be concerned with Desire Levels.

So how do you prompt this Desire? How do you get a woman who knows every intimate detail about you properly motivated to fvck you like she did when you were 18? Women will cry, "more romance!" and men will roll their eyes and murmer "alcohol." Put out of your head right now all of these feminine-correct notions that you need to "rekindle the fire" or find some gimmicky ritual that will lead you back to that desire she picked up from some article in Cosmo - I've gone down that road before. 'Date Night' is a band aid for a symptom of a disease and this is a prolonged lack of Desire. There is nothing worse than going through the motions of a pre-planned, pre-scripted, 'date-like-you-used-to-have' only to have your wife lay on the bed like a dead fish. No amount of opportunity (which is what a date night is, scheduled opportunity) will lead to her wanting to have sex with you.

It's not about frequency, it's about quality. Frequency declines after marriage, it's just logistics (especially after kids), but spontanety doesn't have to. Would your wife fvck you in the car like she did when you were dating? Would she be up for fvcking you outdoors if you were hiking together somewhere? Would she be down for anything kinky that she hasn't done before or is it all just 'vanilla' sex now? Here's a list of things you should do froma a man's point of view:

Make her want it
SInce you've been married she probably feels pretty secure with you and whatever degree of control she has in regards to regulating the flow of sex. Make her uncomfortable. As counterintuitive as it sounds, this is the single most important advantage you can take. Begin to incrementally take the power that her intimacy has had sway over you for the past few years back from her. When you were unmarried even the slightest bit of anxiety that she may be put off for another, better prospect than herself prompted that desire to fvck you better than the others might be.

Most important though is to do this covertly. If you go popping off about how you're taking your balls back and she'd better shape up or you'll be looking for a woman who is into fvcking you, you're dead in the water. You have to imply with your attitude and behavior that somethng's changed in you. The best DJ principle to remember in marriage is that you will only get what you've gotten if you keep doing what you've done before.

The power of the 'takeaway'
In one form or another DJs use the takeaway to mold behavior. This is behavioral psychology 101, reinforce the behaviors you want and punish the ones you don't, all the time remembering that too much reward leads to satiation and cesation of the desired behavior. Don't buy your wife flowers in order to get her to fvck you, buy them AFTER she's performed accordingly and to your satisfaction. So many married men I know (even in their 60s ) still atempt to purchase sex from their wives by 'allowing' them to buy expensive things thinking it will lead to 'appreciation sex'. In reality it will invariably lead to expected and desireless 'debt sex'. Remember, the pool boy that your wife cheats on you for didn't buy her a goddamn thing to make her want to fvck him.

Your attention is your best tool in this regard. One thing I tell AFCs on this forum is not to give away the farm on the first date and that women are by nature attention craving. When you give away your attention without her having to earn it, it devalues your attention. This is a paradox in marriage because it's understood that she 'should' have 100% of your attention and after years of marriage there is zero mystery about you. When you begin to take away attention she's grown accustomed to, she will seek it. And again you must do this covertly as she will respond to it coverty. You have to be sensitive to the adjustments she makes in her attention seeking, in conversation, in posture, in habit and behavior, becasue she wont overtly tell you "oh please pay attention to me." This will add to her desire to have sex with you in order to reaffirm this attention. Sex then becomes a reinforcer for her in this attention seeking which you can then use to modify her behavior - in this case being genuine desire.

Other forms of the takeaway may include certain regularities she's grown used to over the years that she takes for granted. One of these is a regular kiss. I used this to a great effect with my own wife. I would regularly come home from work and go kiss my wife as soon as I saw her, she became accustomed to this and after a few years I came to realize that I was like a puppydog in this regard, immmediately seeking affection as soon as I got home so I began to take this away. Eventually she covertly recognized this and began to greet me at the door with a kiss. She was prompted to desire that connection by a takeaway.

Stay in shape
Nothing kills married sex faster than one or both partners letting themselves go physically. Most married Mothers who do so love to use their pregnancies as justification for their lack of motivation and obesity. Arousal is the important component to desire. If your wife kept herself in bikini model shape after she'd been overweight your desire to fvck her would undoubtedly increase. The same applies to you. Every day I'm in the gym I see countless 30 and 40 somethings straining and training as if their lives depended on it. Actually their sex-lives depend on it. For far too long we've been taught that "it's what's on the inside that counts" and how wonderful inner beauty is. Funny how hard men and women will train once they're divorced eh? The question is, what is it about their situation that would make them take care of themselves physically that they wouldn't while married? Before the divorce, they never had the time or motivation, but now it seems they have plenty of both

By staying shape - and by that I mean better shape than your spouse if possible - you send a message, not only of confidence, but a covert understanding that she'll have some veiled competition for your attention. Thus you not only create genuine desire by physical arousal, but you simultaneously create a psychology of desire by prompting her natural competitive impulses.

Dont drive drunk
"It provoketh the desire, but taketh away the perfomance."

Alcohol is NOT an aphrodesiac. True, it does lower inhibitions and perhaps disposes your wife to lovemaking. After 9 years I've perfected the 'pantydropper' - that magic formula of just enough alcohol to get her going, but not so much as to have her passed out over the toilet bowl. Still, sex is better sober and the obvious setback of whiskeyd!ck isn't going to improve her already dubious desire to have sex in the first place. Understand the dynamics of her sexuality too. Strike while the iron's hot and be sure to be up and ready to go at the peak of her menstrual cycle. I have my wife's period down to a science now and I know that she's physically ready to rock & roll here best by week 2. Catch her right after a wood workout and after I've come back from lifting and that's the benchmark for 'real' genuine sexual desire. You simply cannot inspire her to a standard of desire if one or both of you have a depressant in your blodstream. If anything you want to accelerate blood flow now impede it.

Spontaneous combustion
As Pook is wont to say, "predictable is BORING!" There's nothing more predictable than sex with the same person you've been getting busy with for 10 years. Oddly enough the spontanety principle is exactly why garbage advice like 'date night' and "keeping it fresh" articles in Marie Claire sell magazines and don't save marriages. All of these "freshen it up" ideas are predictable. For all of the wacky ideas you can come up with for 'new' sex, you're still fvcking the same old lady you married 10 years ago. You've got to be willing to push the envelope with her expectations of predictable sex.

Suggest it when she least expects it. Tell her to flash you her boobs or some other cheap thrill when the opportunity presents itself at the beach or somewhere semi-public. Creating a condition of desire doesn't have to directly and immediately lead to intercourse. Ask her for a hummer in the parking lot before you go to dinner one night. Even the asking is arousing. Even if she turns you down you can still use her rejection to your advantage since it implies that, perhaps at some point in time, she (or some other girlfriend you had) used to do this because she wanted to. When you do proposition your wife make it seem as if it just popped into your head at that very moment. Again, think covert, not overt. Overt requires planning and planning = predictable and boring. Covert implies spontaneity.

The Cardinal Rule of Relationships

In any relationship, whether romantic, personal, business or familial, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

This may sound Machievellian, but it holds true, especially in marriage. If you are asking who has the greater degree of control in your relationship the answer is always her. Just like a good DJ knows, she must come to you. If you are the PRIZE and she recognizes this, you wlll inspire genuine desire. Women don't want to marry other women (with the obvious exceptions), they want to marry men and you have to man up and be a man to do so. So many married guys I know have walked their entire married lives on eggshells becasue they put their wives in a position of being the gatekeeper of his own sexuality. "She's got the vagina man, I don't wanna piss her off" is the mantra they repeat to them and themselves. This then flows over into other aspects of their lives and places a woman (often unwantedly so) into becoming the authority in the marriage. Just as in single life, if her intimacy is used as her agency to get a desired behavior from her husband that's the value it has. When you can prove to her that her pvssy is no longer a rewarding reinforcer for her desired behavior of you remove this agency and reset yoursef on at least a partial footing of your prior bachelorhood.

As I stated, women don't want to marry other women, neither do they want to marry themselves. In becoming accommodating for her by allowing her sexuality to dictate their behavior, men often see identifying with a woman as the best course of getting laid in marriage. And like in single life this ends up putting a man in a sort of married 'friends zone', with which a woman feels obligated to have sex occasionally. You've got to avoid these traps by maintaining a stubborn sense of your own identity and actively protect against identifying with her. You have to make her want you, by being her opposite.

Great post RT, even though I've read it 12 times before.....

To the original poster, I'd like to know a few things. Namely how long were you divorced when you married this new wife, how long did you date her, etc. All the numbers. Basically I'm probably going to call you an AFC since you're sticking with a woman who mistreats you because you "love" her. Man, you don't LOVE this woman, you love HAVING a woman. I bet if there was another chick begging to go out with you you'd be cheating like a mother fukker.

In a relationship, if you can't resolve the problem 50/50 and compromise, then there's no hope. It's not all about her. Quit trying to make her happy because you're scared you can't get anybody else. That's the ONLY reason why you're still sticking with her. And let me let you in on a little hint - your wife knows this too. As RT would say, covert communication.

I have several questions for the original poster:

1- How old is that woman? (which is kind of irrelevant to be honest with you)

2- Do you two have children together? (very relevant)

3- Are you renting or own a home? (very important)

4- Do you have any considerably debts together? (very important)

If the answer for #2 is NONE, #3 is renting, and #4 is NONE...then either divorce her or request and annulment.

That's what I would personally do.

You are 44 years old. If she is over 35...you can rest assure that she is NOT going to change her ways. You can stay with her a few more years, but at 44, that only means that you would get older (50s?) and literally reducing your pool of prospective chicks.

EDIT to ADD: If you were younger OR if the issue was NOT "economics" (a very serious one), then I would have said to try and work on this. But time (you are not getting younger) and ECONOMICS (a possible bad debt as her debts are YOUR debts via marriage) would make me consider the divorce option better.

Well, one thing you need to consider doing is to dig deeply into her core values and beliefs. I disagree about being unable to change other people. Whoever the first person who said "You cant change other peoples minds" probably had someone else put that idea in his head! Get it? Its a paradox. Most people cant deal with paradoxes but I doubt youre most people.

Click to expand...

After a person reaches certain age and after years of behaving certain way, it is virtually impossible to change that person. It would take an act of God or a life changing experience (e.g. accident) to change that person.

did the two of you ever sit down and discuss finances before marriage?
have you ever just had to say, put the charge cards down and step away from the charge card?

if she is wanting to spend more than you make before you make it, you are going to be in so much debt that you wont be able to afford the things that you want.

what is she spending so much money on? if its dinner with her friends, or junk that you dont need, without talking to you... then this is certainly a problem isn't it?

i would talk to her about the debts and how you shouldnt have to take another job due to her spending habits.

would you like to retire one day? or have money for an accident / emergency situation?

or would you like to go on a very nice vacation? you cant afford to do things like that with the debts you have right now.

can she be the kind of wife you want and need?

Penkitten...as I said...he should divorce her.

Especially because of the Retirement thing.

penkitten said:

wife you want and need?

Click to expand...

*Yellow flag flies up from the bottom edge of the screen, lands on field, a chorus of whistles blare*
....
*intercom keys up, pause and static*

"Illegal implication. Poster implied that a man NEEDS a wife, prior to the divorce. 5 yard penalty. Repeat first down."

*intercom cuts out*

penkitten said:

did the two of you ever sit down and discuss finances before marriage?
have you ever just had to say, put the charge cards down and step away from the charge card?

if she is wanting to spend more than you make before you make it, you are going to be in so much debt that you wont be able to afford the things that you want.

what is she spending so much money on? if its dinner with her friends, or junk that you dont need, without talking to you... then this is certainly a problem isn't it?

i would talk to her about the debts and how you shouldnt have to take another job due to her spending habits.

would you like to retire one day? or have money for an accident / emergency situation?

or would you like to go on a very nice vacation? you cant afford to do things like that with the debts you have right now.

can she be the kind of wife you want and need?

Click to expand...

All this should have happened before marriage. I agree. However at this point I don't think she'll change.

It's like I told my girlfriend. It's not always gonna be "My way or the highway", but half that fukking highway is mine.

Vulpine said:

*Yellow flag flies up from the bottom edge of the screen, lands on field, a chorus of whistles blare*
....
*intercom keys up, pause and static*

"Illegal implication. Poster implied that a man NEEDS a wife, prior to the divorce. 5 yard penalty. Repeat first down."

*intercom cuts out*

Click to expand...

geeze louise vulpine... lol
he damn sure NEEDS her to cut up the credit cards.