how do i do it with out eating too less for muscle growth and eating too much to put fat on?

Take steroids.

donjuanjovi said:

Take steroids.

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You obviously have a lot to learn.

Dj Ben2, did you read the Idiot's Guide?

Eat lots of protein, eat complex carbs at breakfast/post workout (maybe some simple post workout)

Good cardio
Lots of lifting
Get your healthy fats



Summarized it alllll for ya. I think...???

yea i do have a LOT to learn but im still young =D

the best way i have reduced my bodyfat and increased muscle is sprinting on the treadmill then lifting as heavy as possible, usually about 14.5km/h for 10-15 mins (i play soccer aswell so need to keep v.fit), it can be done as im living proof of it

i might be mistaken here but endurance on the treadmill (i.e slow jog for a long time) is a big no-no!

Losing bodyfat WHILE putting on muscle mass is pretty difficult. It is known as body recompositioning. The only way to quantify it is to take some before pics and to maintain your weight while becoming shredded. That way you know you lost fat and gained mass. Note that between 12-18% BF you look the same. As you dip below 12% you may lose weight, but you'll actually LOOK bigger because of muscle definition.

Still, it's a very meticulous process. Reason being is that you primarily lose fat (or muscle) on a calorie deficit, and gain muscle (or fat) on a calorie surplus. And you can't have both at the same time, but there is a workaround. Most people will maintain current mass and lose BF (maybe even gain some strength) and THINK they're gaining muscle. Again the only way to be sure is to look in the mirror and on the scale.

Diet of course is a no brainer. Lots of protein, moderate intake of complex carbs, lower fat intake.

IMO it's much easier to go on (clean) bulking and cutting phases, at least in the beginning. Now once you get to a BF percentage you're happy with (for most people 10% or below), you can then slowly start gaining mass while maintaining your current BF.

md3sign said:

Reason being is that you primarily lose fat (or muscle) on a calorie deficit, and gain muscle (or fat) on a calorie surplus.

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This isn't strictly true, even in a calorie deficit you can gain muscle if protein intake is sufficient (many precontest bodybuilders can still gain muscle going into a show, natural or enhanced) and the right demands are being placed on the body (growth-inducing training). Likewise you can lose fat while being in a surplus. It's all to do with nutrient timing and partitioning.

However for the most part you're right since technically, if you do cardio on waking (with a shot of whey or whatever you feel is necessary to avoid catabolism) you'll be in a deficit for that period of time and be burning fat. Then from breakfast onwards you eat a surplus which packs on the pounds. (there will also still be some metabolic 'afterburn' from the morning cardio which will enable you to keep burning fat even after your first 1-2 meals of the day).

For me THIS is easier to do rather than do the whole bulk/cut thing, since it allows me to train and eat how I want all year round (and I eat a lot of junk while being anything but ectomorphic). Just by modifying my diet a tiny bit or adding a tiny bit more cardio I can keep or reduce bodyfat and not have it interfere with strength or size gains OR make me feel like I'm depriving myself of foods I like (this doesn't mean I have a cheat day six days out of seven of course).

Of course this is not the optimal way to gain muscle OR lose fat but it's a healthy in between which is more maintainable and much easier on the body.

I agree. Overall it is possible, just difficult. And for skinny beginners a solid bulk cycle is preferable. Bulking/cutting isn't something I would recommend long term because like you said it's hard on the body, but an initial cycle or two when you first start serious training is a good idea.

I bulked up a lot and put on more fat than I wanted to, so now I'm slowing down a bit and concentrating slowly putting on muscle mass while maintaining my BF. Come spring I'll cut for the summer and then slowly continue packing on mass (at that point ~1-2lbs/month) as a long term solution.

md3sign said:

I agree. Overall it is possible, just difficult. And for skinny beginners a solid bulk cycle is preferable. Bulking/cutting isn't something I would recommend long term because like you said it's hard on the body, but an initial cycle or two when you first start serious training is a good idea.

I bulked up a lot and put on more fat than I wanted to, so now I'm slowing down a bit and concentrating slowly putting on muscle mass while maintaining my BF. Come spring I'll cut for the summer and then slowly continue packing on mass (at that point ~1-2lbs/month) as a long term solution.

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Good plan. Congrats on your gains. You appear to have a good knowledge base and you're thinking longterm, which is also essential if you're to have a physique which will turn heads. Also you eat beef, and for this I salute you.

Personally I'd have anyone under 200lbs just eat their asses off (unless they're already too fat) and not worry about keeping abs or anything, they can clean up their diets for the long haul as you say with already a solid size and strength base behind them.. the extra muscle and their already fast metabolisms will help them lean out as they still put on size.

dj ben2 said:

yea i do have a LOT to learn but im still young =D

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I was referring to donjuanjovi's implication that a body recomposition (lose fat, gain muscle simultaneously) was only possible when using steroids.

wats catabolism

Catabolic:

The metabolic breakdown of complex molecules into simpler ones, often resulting in a release of energy.

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It breaks stuff down for fuel.

From a BB/PL perspective, catabolism = breakdown of muscle tissue, anabolism = build up of muscle tissue. Obviously you want to be in an anabolic state as much as possible.

Tis true. Anytime somebody refers to a "catabolic state", that's no bueno.

Catabolism in relation to muscles means your body breaks down muscle tissue in order to get some needed nutrient. In effect, if you want to put on muscle, catabolism is bad.

Anabolism is the term for your body putting on more muscle.

***edit***

ROFL yea what md3 said....

get a job.

get a job who u talking to ? and if im on a low carb eating plan its best if i have carbs b4 i work out ?

dj ben2 said:

get a job who u talking to ? and if im on a low carb eating plan its best if i have carbs b4 i work out ?

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carbs before and after your workout.

penkitten, what is your problem please?

Warboss Alex said:

carbs before and after your workout.

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simple or complex carbs?? how long should i wait after ive eaten b4 i can actually do the workout ?


TY SO MUCH INFO IS GR8LY APPRECIATED